Hacker News Reader

Comment by thoughtcriminal | Hacker News Reader

William Gibson calls Singapore "DisneyLand with the Death Penalty": http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html

Definitely sounds like a surreal place.

Been living here for almost a year, it's wonderful. Less personal freedom than Hong Kong, but all things considered, it's one of the best places to live.

You don't walk or talk worrying about the police or anything like that. You aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but aside from the huge gap between rich and poor (a problem facing all Asian countries), there aren't huge issues to protest.

Edit: I was wrong to say the above. Apologies. Keeping it here though for context to comments below.

> there aren't huge issues to protest

Aside from the issues mentioned in the OP?

Or if you are gay? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_...

Or immigration policy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729

Or...

I live in Singapore too, and while there are plenty of pluses there are also plenty of minuses and they shouldn't be minimized or ignored.

Ok, you and zainny make fair points. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of, say, Turkey right now..or Somalia. But even if it isn't at that scale, freedom of speech is important and I was wrong do dismiss it so casually.

I don't think anyone seriously compares Singapore to Somalia or Turkey - by that measure it's a veritable paradise. The comparisons I have seen have all compared it to developed, first-world countries like most of western Europe, the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, etc.

It is, after all, the league that Singapore wants to play in both in image and influence.

>Or if you are gay?

Section 377A is pretty rarely (if ever) enforced nowadays, and judging by the government's current lacklustre response to protests against it, I have a feeling they'll probably be repealing it in the next couple of years.

There's even a gay village up in Changi.

>Or immigration policy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729

The government has reacted to that by tightening up visa requirements. Probably not nearly as much as the protestors, but they're still paying attention and responding.

Not saying that these aren't issues, or that they shouldn't be protested, but compared to most other countries, you've still got it pretty good here.

The protest about the immigration policy actually makes me glad that Singapore isn't run as a democracy.

Do you mind elaborating?

I think eru meant that a majority of Singaporeans are feeling the pinch and sentiments towards foreigners are at an all time low. Mainly due to loss to jobs and housing opportunities to foreigners. Our government however maintained that foreigners are essential to growth and had there been a voting process in this decision there will be ugly results.

However I will not go as to say Singapore is less democratic due to this point.

Yes. And I am with the government on this. I am a foreigner myself here, but where I grew up---in eastern Germany---the attitude towards foreigners is way worse. And the region has not benefitted in the least from that attitude.

(As an aside, it is crazy how many Americans seem to have crazy xenophobic attitudes, too. On their `left' and `right' of the political spectrum.)

"You aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but ... there aren't huge issues to protest."

If history has taught us anything, it's that statements like this _do_ inevitably come back to bite you very, very hard.

At least you are free to vote with your feet. Something that e.g. the GDR made very hard.

I've been living in Vietnam for the last two years and my life here as a foreigner is pretty sweet, all things considered.

But I'm not sure I'd feel the same way if I were a native. The fact that I can buy a plane ticket tomorrow and be half way around the world any time makes it easier to ignore some of the realities that natives face without that freedom.

The Singapore passport is pretty good. It's supposedly better than Iceland in terms of travel freedom. [1]

However, I personally think the government has implemented considerable measures to stop brain drain, including 4/6-year bond government university scholarships [2] and an intended lack of (usually bilateral) working holiday visas [3].

(Can't find any links aggregating such visas for Singapore citizens, but I found that New Zealand might be one of the few countries to offer such a visa [3]. There's no such programme for Australia [4], Canada [5] or the UK [6] — this could be contrasted with Malaysia, which has bilateral programmes with some of these countries.)

On the bright side, the USA offers the H1B1 non-immigrant-intent visa for Singapore citizens. [7]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Singapore...

[2] http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/psc/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx#FAQ_34197

[3] http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/work-hol...

[4] http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/visa-options...

[5] http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/intro_incoming-int...

[6] http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/...

[7] http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegrams/telegrams_1391.h...

Vietnamese are free to travel outside Vietnam and even emigrate but the reality is that visas for most countries outside SE Asia are hard for them to come by and they certainly don't have the luxury of jetting back to the U.S. any time things get uncomfortable for them.

Wow, say that to the 3million native Singaporeans. I'm sure they will paint a very different picture. You are a foreigner living life of Singapore via rose-tinted glasses. Don't make such sweeping statements.

Yup, I was wrong. Sorry.

sounds a bit like Dubai. people are relaxed and happy because all the shit is swept under the rug so it doesn't concern the priviledged. gotta embrace 'ignorance is bliss', accept things how they are, take what's yours and don't look below the surface, otherwise you'd probably go nuts.

> all the shit is swept under the rug

This is quite literally true in Dubai: http://gizmodo.com/5857475/without-trucks-the-tallest-buildi...

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither." --Benjamin Franklin

This is a quote we all need to take to heart.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com