Comment by ColinWright | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ColinWright | Hacker News Reader

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I'm probably in a minority here, and I'm speaking purely for myself, and it's a strictly personal view, but ...

I hate it.

I'm sure it's technically very clean, elegant, and "nice", but more and more as I look at the "gorgeous" and "beautifully designed" sites pointed to from HN, I just feel like my face is being pushed through mush.

I know that sounds entirely negative, and I'm sorry about that, but the obsession with blended buttons and perfect pastels and crafted corners and so on just makes the whole thing feel wishy washy.

Am I alone in this? I'm sure lots of people love it, and I hope you get lots of great comments, but I just thought I'd mention that not everyone is the same in their perceptions.

Please, can someone with design skills equal to the ones demonstrated here have a go at something with a bit more "edge."

Oh, and here's the discussion from last time:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2410195

It's great to see that many of the comments from that discussion were taken on board and acted on.

Added in edit: I see that this is a controversial comment. It's getting both upvotes and downvotes, so people clearly agree, and disagree. But I think this comment is genuinely of value. If you create something and there were dissenting opinions, would you not like to hear them? Do you only want "Yes Men" in your entourage? Dissenting opinions can be hard to take, but if you block them out you get an echo chamber. Please, if you think this comment is of negative value and doesn't belong on HN, tell us why. For the downvoters, that's certainly your right and privilege, but ask yourself: are you downvoting because you think this comment doesn't belong on HN, or simply because it's an opinion contrary to yours? FWIW, I've upvoted the submission.

I think your habit of complaining in the guise of asking for explanation whenever you get downvoted constitutes gaming of the moderation system, which presents a greater danger to HN than even outright trolling. I want to discourage that behaviour, and will downvote it whenever I see it. I also find it rather distasteful that you're so defensive about being downvoted given that you of all users can clearly afford the karma.

I appreciate your candour - it's useful to see another point of view, and I will take it into account.

Having said that, I usually don't see the reasons for the down-votes, and I genuinely do want explanations. I don't mind the down-votes - whether or not I can "afford the karma" is beside the point. Down-voting people is a part of how the site works, causing comments and submissions to bubble up and/or down, and I think that's a good thing. Not being given the chance to learn something or to see an alternate point of view is disappointing.

But when someone disagrees with a comment and just performs a "drive-by down-vote" I think it's of negative value to the site, and I'd like to discourage that. Sadly, I suspect that ship has sailed.

So again, thank you for the feedback. If we're ever co-located, and you think you can stand my company, I owe you a coffee. FWIW, I've upvoted your comment, even though I (obviously) don't agree with it.

I think everyone wants to know the reason when they're downvoted - I certainly do. So asking for it isn't really adding new information to the conversation. I do wish there were a way to downvote and provide explanation (even a slashdot-style "select reason from a small dropdown"), but I can only trust there are good reasons for the absence of such a thing.

Not to mention that AIUI replying to a post you downvoted negates the effect of the downvote? Which makes the request for explanation doubly suspect.

I'd be very happy to meet when you're next in London (well, not in the next couple of weeks as I'm busy moving house, but in general). md401@srcf.ucam.org

> Please, can someone with design skills equal to the ones demonstrated here have a go at something with a bit more "edge."

I tried an approach here: http://userstyles.org/styles/71445/better-hacker-news-design

I don't think it reaches the quality of this submission - i am not enough of a visual designer for that - and maybe it is also not what you search for, but you could give it a try. I tried to maintain a bit of what defines the original design, like the orange header, maybe it is that what you are missing.

Interesting. I've installed it and will try living with it for a time to see which I prefer. Sadly, I can only install it on two of my five systems, but that will give me a chance to switch between them and compare.

Quick feedback, I don't like the white text in the top bar, and you seem to have shrunk the width. I do like the different font, and am undecided about the blue links.

But I'll certainly give it a go. Thanks.

Always happy to hear someone really trying it. So thanks. It took some time getting used to even for me. If you still have feedback after some time, especially if it's the same, please consider sending me a mail or commenting on the design-page. I promise I'll look into it.

Readability often conflicts with the geek-aesthetics on digital screens and devices. For example, I personally like to code with anti-aliasing off - I just find the code more readable that way (maybe I am used to that?). I also don't much like the retina-display because it tries to hide the digital nature of the device (can't see the pixels - makes sense?). Lastly, while serif fonts might be more readable when viewed from top there does seem to be something intangibly wrong with them when viewed head-on horizontally.

I get you don't like it, but why? I've never heard about "wishy-washy" in relation to Web layout and design. If you could be more specific, that would certainly make your comment better.

With that said, I personally think it needs less whitespace and smaller fonts. I'm not a fan of Georgia either.

Off-topic: Also, I'm tired of all these Hacker News iPhone apps, scrapers, browser plugins and whatnot. It gets too "meta" for me that these things are posted constantly.

I'm not a design person, I don't have the language to talk about these things, and I certainly can't articulate clearly exact points. I've been as clear as I can, I really have. I took a long time trying to write that comment, trying to explain my point, and trying to be clear.

It just feels, well, I don't know, "Energy Free", "Hypnotic", "Soporific". There's no sharpness, no hustle, no contrast, but those are terms that make you think of image contrast and sharpness, and that's not what I mean.

My father was a sign-maker, and he loved jobs that were specified by an architect. Why? Because they produced gorgeous designs that were harmonious and free flowing. The signs were specified to fit with the color scheme and blend with the decor. As a result, he would always be called back 6 months later to augment or replace the signage.

I wonder if I feel a little the same here. I'm slowly being hypnotized by "beautiful design."

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