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Comment by rlpb | Hacker News Reader

"People wouldn’t (especially men) enter a store just for the sake of it, they want help."

I prefer to engage with others as little when I enter a store. I want to find the stuff I want, pay for it, and get out. I'm even willing to spend twice as much time (or more) looking for what I want than I would have if I have go engage with a store assistant.

I'm not exactly socially awkward, either. I just hate shopping. I find stores quite adversarial. I feel that assistants aren't really there to help me; they're there to maximize profits for their employer. I prefer to make a buying decision without the time pressure I feel if I'm being helped. If I'm told "you look great in that" I am unable to figure out if it's really suitable for me, or if the assistant just wants to make a sale, or if the assistant hasn't been able to judge me accurately.

My answer to “Are you after pants or tops today?” will always be “I'm just looking; thanks.”

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I have the same goals as you (find the stuff I want, pay for it, and get out), but that's why I seek out the salespeople!

I feel that assistants aren't really there to help me; they're there to maximize profits for their employer.

Help me find these employees! I joke, but seriously - I usually get great recommendations from the staff, often brutally honest. I find people don't give flippant recommendations, as its a reflection of themselves.

I went to Sears two days ago for a brake inspection. The guy quoted $700. He pulled me off to the side and said, 'buy the parts for $100 and we will charge $300 for labor. Quote around for better prices, or you might be able to do the labor yourself, so, give that a try too and just bring it in if all else fails.' My memorial day weekend is going to consist of attempting these repairs, but thanks to him, I may become a man this weekend.

(No, brakes are not my first repair. Most of my repairs have been in the car, electrical, hoses, injection, dropping the fuel tank, etc. I have always stayed away from tires/suspension and usually paid the hefty fees. Thanks for the _valid_ concern!)

The cynic in me says that he's hoping you'll screw it up worse so that they can charge more to fix what you broke in the process.

Probably not. He's not likely to go back to the same shop if he screws it up.

Why not? He has a positive impression of them, and if he screws it up he'll know that was his fault, not theirs.

Your "become a man" quip worries me just a bit. I'm going to assume that this isn't your first automotive repair. If it is, please don't start with brakes. Changing pads and rotors (I assume rotor because of the $700 quote) isn't hard, and there isn't much to screw up. But if you do screw up, there isn't much leeway. In other words, getting it wrong isn't a "oh, I'll have to fix that next weekend" moment. It's a "oh, my, "I only have rear brakes/why is my front wheel locked up/oops, should have tightened those lug nuts" moment.

But if you know a 9/16" box end from a 10mm socket, then have fun and give it the same attention to detail that you would an important piece of coding.

This is kind of off-topic, but if all you're doing is replacing pads and rotors, you can do that yourself pretty easily. If you're doing anything that requires you to remove brake lines (and subsequently bleed them), take it to someone who knows what they're doing. It's easy enough to screw up, and air in the lines is a dangerous thing.

Get a service manual if you can (Haynes is kind of the gold standard here). It'll walk you through, step-by-step, whatever it is you're trying to do.

As a non-commissioned retail salesperson in a previous life, giving honest and helpful recommendations and trying not to annoy people that don't need help, was the only pride to be found in that work.

Not everybody is an introvert, and some people do want help but are too afraid to ask. Although I suspect that for each of those there are three people that would just like to shop on their own.

It's also important to note people can often give the wrong signals. Wearing a baggy coat and making sideways glance at the staff because you're worried they may come over may flag you as a shoplifter and attract their attention.

I don't normally want any assistance, except when I do, and then I do. The generic phrases "Can I help you?" or "Can I help you find something?" are perfectly fine, contrary to the article. These are standard prompts to which I give standard replies.

Much, much worse is "Are you after pants or tops today?" which is the worst kind of sleazeball sales opener. Now I'm on guard, preparing to either fend off a hard sell or make a break for the exit.

Yep: there's no better strategy to kill my interest in buying from you.

"which is the worst kind of sleazeball sales opener."

This, exactly. In the US, car dealers have a pretty poor reputation, because people generally believe that the salespeople are especially trained to trick/beguile/confuse shoppers, in order to maximize the dealers profit. In turn, I think many people dread buying a car from a dealer.

Do you really want people to view your operation in the same light as a car dealer?

Exactly.

"Can I help you?" "Nope. Just looking..." "OK. Just let me know if you need any assistance."

Perfect. I have help if I need it. If I was initially too shy to ask, the door was opened for me. No pressure.

Of course we're talking typical retail, set up for self service. This model doesn't always apply, and you shouldn't blindly apply it.

Walking around wearing headphones (even if you're not listening to anything) is a simple way to signal that you don't want people to try to talk to you.

That quote ending with "they want help" reminds me of Alec Baldwin's monologue in Glengarry Glen Ross. It sounds salesy to me, and I'd reply with "just looking" and pretend to be undisturbed but to soon leave the store, much less likely to return.

Exactly.

My experience in New York City last year led me to be buying less than I would if just left alone to browse. Even when I said I'm just looking the assistants wouldn't leave me alone. Presumably they're on commission.

Here' some advice - just leave me alone and be available if I have questions. Don't second guess me.

... And then never go back to that store again.

I actually like shopping, but I hate most salespeople that do this for a simple reason: 99% of them are clueless, don't have particularly good taste, and are are far more interested in goading me into a quick sale than actually helping me.

"May I help you?" is annoying enough, but "Are you looking for pants or tops today?" is a huge red flag, because it's no less generic in fact, and sounds like a cynical attempt to weasel around a customer's instinctive reaction ("No thank you") to the first question, and make it harder for them to quickly disengage.

There are clueful, tasteful, and truly helpful salespeople out there, but in my experience, they almost always have the tact and judgment to read body language and just let you browse until it's clear you really want assistance. If they do say something they're careful to use a light touch, and make it easy for the customer to quickly demur; they certainly don't use linguistic tricks like the article advocates in order to trap the customer into "engagement."

The only salesperson that sticks out in my memory as being truly helpful worked in a store that sold sunglasses. I had been standing there for a few minutes trying on different pairs of aviator style sunglasses when she spotted me, stared at my face for a couple seconds, went and grabbed a pair out of a case, and asked me to try them on.

They looked awesome.

They cost more than I had planned on spending, but I bought them. No pressure from the salesperson.

I feel the same. but it's worth remembering that from the store/salesperson's point of view, it's all a numbers game. No single tactic will work on everybody, but as long as it improves sales in the aggregate it's usually a good move.

Which is just to say that your experience/reaction isn't invalid in any way, but it doesn't mean that the OP can't still be good advice.

I would, of course, reply to "Are you after pants or tops today" with, "I'm a man, you idiot, I don't wear 'tops', I wear shirts"

No sweaters, coats, hoodies, or anything else on your torso which isn't usually called a shirt?

I always thought sweaters were shirts. And I never thought coats were tops. But fashion has always been rather mysterious.

* Puffy wool shirt

* winter over-shirt

* shirt with integrated hat

I often do go into a store with a low expectation to buy, especially if it's a new shop that people are talking about or if I'm travelling and have an hour to kill before my train arrives.

I mean, I might buy something if it really jumps out at me but I'm probably not thinking specifically in terms of "pants or shirt".

Seriously. Don't feel guilty? You're going to scare a fair number of customers away, such as myself. If every time I go into a store I get a question like that which can't easily be dodged, I'll probably stop going.

When I'm in a store, 99% of the time I have done my research well in advance (probably online) and made my decision - I'm in the store simply because I prefer seeing the item in person before buying it. I may ask the store attendant where something is, but that's as far as my interaction with them will go.

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