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Comment by dmschulman | Hacker News Reader

From my understanding, part of the controversy stems from FWD.us stating in general terms that they are lobbying for "immigration reform", but in actuality, they are lobbying for a very specific type of immigration reform, one that would only benefit tech companies looking for highly skilled and foreign (cheaper) labor.

FWD.us isn't advocating to solve the larger immigration issues the US already faces (a clear and present issue that needs resolution), but is merely taking advantage of a political situation to further their own interests.

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High skilled immigration is an issue that is a lot simpler where there is a lot more agreement. It ought to be much easier to move on that without considering the issuance of green cards to 7% of the population of Mexico.

I also applaud Elon for sticking to his guns and taking his philanthropy elsewhere. Tech people and VCs especially know that big problems are worth solving more than small boutique problems.

Tech people and VCs especially know that big problems are worth solving more than small boutique problems.

I almost threw up when I read this. Are you serious? What is it about tech people that makes us so wonderful? And why do you think the rest of the population is so simple minded?

Furthermore I thought the group Musk is leaving contains other tech people (at least as traditionally defined). Are you saying that since they do not see the big picture as Musk sees it that they are simple minded people not worthy of being called "tech people"? Do you think any of the people on the supporters page[1] are "true tech people that know big problems are worth solving"?

[1] http://www.fwd.us/our_supporters

I'm glad words I never wrote caused you such a physical reaction! Hope your laptop survived.

I was referring to the new rich and the fact that a guy like Elon Musk isn't preoccupied with making a product like Snapchat or Pinterest. Instead him and Tesla have single-handedly realized the all-electric car as a consumer product with physical infrastructure, brand appeal, and impressive engineering. Oh and they're also solving a real global problem by doing this (carbon dioxide levels are currently at the highest levels in recorded human history).

And freakin space mining? Yes we will laugh at the idea today. It's a much loftier goal, it might not even take off, but approaches (somewhat) fixing the real problem of dwindling natural resources here on Earth.

Bill Gates? Ron Conway? PG? You certainly know these people, their accomplishments, and the lasting impacts they've made (among others on the list). I might not agree with their philanthropic desires for FWD.us, but I'm not going to dictate where others should spend their (well earned) fortunes.

Musk has just simply decided to move elsewhere.

You did not write this:

I also applaud Elon for sticking to his guns and taking his philanthropy elsewhere. Tech people and VCs especially know that big problems are worth solving more than small boutique problems.

PS: I think you need to look up the definition of philanthropy.

You mean 21st century startups that actually make real things? I wish we had more of those.

I think he means, "new money."

Only on the west coast would Bill Gates count as "old money" :)

In West Coast terms, he does. His family had money before he did.

>> foreign (cheaper) labor.

[citation needed]

The minimum salary for an H1-B software engineer in Silicon Valley is $84,000, which is on the low end of market but not egregiously low. You can check out the wage requirements here[1]

[1] http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStep3.aspx?keyword1=so...

From your link: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?area=41884...

Level 1 Wage:$34.11 hour - $70,949 year

Level 2 Wage:$40.52 hour - $84,282 year

Level 3 Wage:$46.94 hour - $97,635 year

Level 4 Wage:$53.35 hour - $110,968 year

From http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#15-0000

National:

15-1131 Computer Programmers detail 316,790 1.2% 2.431 $35.71 $37.63 $78,260 0.6%

SF:

15-1131 Computer Programmers detail 9,080 11.1% 4.603 1.89 $47.49 $47.71 $99,240 1.6%

So if you factor in stuff like the costs of filing H1-B and such, it's similar. I'm not sure if the statistics are comparable though.

Why bother with the trouble of hiring foreign labor unless it's cheaper?

It's about availability, not price.

The best employees are very hard to find because they're always employed (for themselves or others) and when they do go looking for work, they rarely look through regular recruiting ads (since good workers know: these are a waste of your time). You either need to poach them, target them, acqui-hire them or encourage them to seek you out.

One of the easiest ways for the latter to occur is if they simply want a working holiday (very common for employees aged 25-35). Many people will try to get a job at large companies in an area they'd like to visit. But they'll expect you to help with their working visa.

Even if you're poaching, targeting or acqui-hiring, you need to be able to bring the employees to your place of business. If they can't get a visa, you've wasted your time and money.

Do salary deltas of even 100k make a substantial difference to the bottom line for large tech companies like FB and GOOG? Of course the difference is greater than zero but as a percentage of operating cost I imagine it's relatively small.

My guess is large tech companies are eager to import foreign talent primarily because of cultural and socioeconomic differences. Who would you rather hire to maintain your legacy code bases? A skilled immigrant that's thankful for the six figure salary and will obediently complete their tasks without much fuss? Or the native-English-speaking citizen who can find a six figure salary at any of his friends' companies and will walk as soon as the legacy codebase's tech stack starts to reveal itself as less-than-inspiring?

I'm sure they aren't paying the minimum H1-B salary at places like Google or Facebook anyway. It would be odd for some employees to be making $84k and others to be making $120k.

This is not odd at all in work places. Salary has a huge correlation with the demand when you joined and how hard you negotiate. There's a reason employers try their best to keep salaries a secret.

I think at google/facebook scale its not the cost of the labor but the availability of highly skilled and technical labors.

If you find an awesome person, who you know will be great for your company, why should one have to beg the government to let them come? Finding another such person might take months, and might actually be impossible.

Really? Maybe, because it's better for the same price? Or maybe because it's the best available solution to a problem you have, regardless of price? Maybe it's because...

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