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Comment by nostrademons | Hacker News Reader

"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

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The problem is that a child will not be brought to a therapist for following the rules; only a child who violates rules too frequently will ever see the inside of a psychiatrist's office. A child who always does what they are told will be rewarded, and will likely be rewarded further if their reaction to their rewards is, "What are my next set of instructions?"

This reminds me of a poem my favorite Math professor used to share, about a little boy who was always instructed exactly how to draw a picture of a flower: http://home.bresnan.net/~cabreras/theboy.htm

This "poem" is depressing.

Off topic: It's never made sense to me why people call things that don't rhyme "poems." As far as I'm concerned, this is an essay, not a poem.

It's a type of poetry called "free verse".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_verse

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-free-verse-po...

Here is the classic story of a Real Programmer, written in free verse:

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

This story was originally written in prose, and it apparently got converted to free verse more or less by accident as it was bounced around mailing lists. Here's the prose version:

http://www.pbm.com//~lindahl/mel.html

HN discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=678999

  Another way to put it,
  I suppose you could say,
  is that the difference
  between prose and free verse
  is the number of lines.

Not the number, more like the form, but in general the difference between poetry and, uh, prose is something I do not quite understand.

  > Not the number,
  > more like the form,

  Now that's a great start!
  I wonder if the art is knowing when to go on until your breath runs out,
  and when to keep it
  short.

Free verse seems silly and pointless. So I wrote a trivial program to turn prose into free verse:

    import random

    def poem(text, p_break=0.5, seed=1234):
        rand = random.Random(seed)
        result = []
        for w in text.split():
            result.append(w)
            if rand.uniform(0.0, 1.0) < p_break:
                result.append('\n')
            else:
                result.append(' ')
        return "".join(result)

    print poem("This is a poem written by a program.  It is not really a poem because it does not rhyme, it is some weird thing called free verse, which is a poem that does not rhyme.", p_break=0.1)

Here's the output:

    This is a
    poem written by a program.
    It is not
    really a poem because it does not rhyme,
    it is some
    weird thing called free
    verse, which is a poem that does not rhyme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scansion#Elements

Poetics aside, I have to agree with you about how the poem is a very sad story. My explorations in free verse elsewhere in the thread may be a way to cover up my tears.

My daughter is very bright, but when she was in grade school she'd sometimes have trouble with a homework problem because the textbook didn't explain a concept clearly.

So I'd tell her how I've always found it helpful to read multiple sources on a topic. If one of them doesn't click with the way I think, another one probably will. And just reading multiple references that explain things differently helps reinforce the concepts.

She wanted nothing to do with it! She only wanted to hear about the way "they" explained it - the textbook, the teacher, the school - the right way to do it. Nothing else.

I guess I wish she'd gotten a teacher like the one at the end of that story, early on.

That is depressing.

Most poems in the world don't rhyme. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming#History This one uses a repeated structure instead of repeated sounds.

If how it sounds is as important when read out as the information content it's poetry. Even if you disregard free verse that isn't all poetry. The Norse skaldic tradition is amazing and they were much more into assonance than rhyme. Think rap but without a backing track.

http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Hibernian/journal?cf=profile Is this poetry?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_(poetry)

Does anyone know why the alternative version on that page has an unhappy ending and the original version has a happy ending?

(See the footnote at the bottom of this page: http://home.bresnan.net/~cabreras/theboy.htm)

Who wrote the alternate? Why would the author approve of one but not the other?

Both versions highlight the importance of a nurturing environment to the development of a child. However, the original version is about a child finally finding an environment in which his creativity can thrive; the alternative version is about a child's creativity being stifled during his early development to the point where it is unable to thrive even once he is in an environment that allows, and even encourages, it. Thus the alternative version also demonstrates the lasting damage that may result, and so is more effective at conveying the message of the poem.

Harry Chapin has a song called "Flowers Are Red" that is essentially a retelling of this poem.

Sure, sure. But would be ever prescribe prescription drugs for this? Everything you're describing is characterized as a personality trait, whereas the OP (who I hardly fully agree with) is claiming that anti-authoritarian sentiments are labeled a disease. Obviously, this makes a big difference in how these phenomena are treated.

  > Sure, sure. But would be ever prescribe prescription
  > drugs for this?

If there was a drug shown to improve self-esteem in children, it would likely become one of the most profitable drugs of all time.

  > Everything you're describing is characterized as a
  > personality trait, whereas the OP (who I hardly fully
  > agree with) is claiming that anti-authoritarian
  > sentiments are labeled a disease.

ADHD and ODD aren't diseases, they are disorders. When it comes to psychology/psychiatry, "disorder" is basically a word that means "personality trait that negatively interferes with everyday life".

> If there was a drug shown to improve self-esteem in children, it would likely become one of the most profitable drugs of all time.

If the drug worked it wouldn't be very popular as children would start dropping out of school to join Y Combinator and the drug would be recalled for having horrible defects.

The baby boomers idea of self-esteem is disgusting.

> The baby boomers idea of self-esteem is disgusting.

It seems to be the same as yours: "If people had more self esteem they would want to be more like me"

> If there was a drug shown to improve self-esteem in children, it would likely become one of the most profitable drugs of all time.

It's called alcohol. It's wildly profitable.

When's the last time you give your child alcohol?

If you really cared about your teen with low self esteem, you would buy them a round at the bar.

Why don't you love them?

It depends on what state you're in... (provided you're going to a bar, and not just purchasing it and going home)

You could do it in Wisconsin, but not Illinois.

I think Tequila is what you are looking for. Here are the medical details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EldQzTxSKMM

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