There is NO civil war in Syria.
There is a campaign of terrorism waged by NATO, specifically Turkey , Qatar, Isreal, UK, France to secure the transit for the South Pars/North Dome gas field.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/20128513344...
What's at stake? About $200 billion annual output between Iran & Qatar. That's about $360,000 per SECOND.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pars_/_North_Dome_Gas-Con...
Global Research has the best analysis out there:
Unless you can show actual NATO forces what you've said is the equivalent of saying that the UN is waging a terrorism campaign because some of its member states happened to allegedly be involved.
And while I agree the Al Jazeera link is thought-provoking, that's all I could see in there. Thought-exercises about who benefits from what in the whole series of conflicts. If anything the writer seemed to go along with the idea that the uprising commenced due to the Arab Spring and now it's a question of what actors external to Syria might do.
The only discussion I saw regarding NATO was whether or not NATO would have cause to go all-out after Assad... without any discussion of what "going all-out" might mean (since presumably it doesn't involve the military).
There's also no real discussion of how Israel would benefit from any of these pipeline schemes. For all the animosity Israel and Syria might have had for each other, the current situation has to be considered worse from their point of view than a stable Syrian nation where all the weapons were staying in secure Syrian bunkers.
Or, here is a quick hint for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi_al-Harati
Al Jazeera link is not thought-provoking, it's what the truth is.
In the meantime the evil WASPs plotting secret plans to funnel petrodollars to their bank accounts would be using completely non-descript vehicles because they're not f'in stupid.
The link you've posted about Mahdi has absolutely nothing surreal except for the idea that the CIA might have paid him.... to help overthrow Gaddafi. That's the dictator that NATO actually was dropping bombs on, so why should it have been surprising that the CIA was helping push that along, exactly?
You're also forgetting that the revolution started peacefully. People protested simply for freedom and liberty, which all human beings aspire for. It was the suppressive and violent actions of the government, which immediately resorted to killing its own citizens, that has lead the conflict to eventually turn violent and to where it is now.
No matter what the global interests are, it's the very actions of the suppressive regime that's worsening the situation and leading to the country's destruction. None of this would exist and we wouldn't be talking about it today, had the mafia-like government initially conceded to the will of the people and worked on transitioning the country to a fully democratic government. But notice the "mafia-like" adjective? A mafia-like government obviously does not have the best interest of the country in mind, so they're not going to adopt the will of the people and threaten their iron-grip rule. They're going to suppress every dissent with maximum force. That's exactly what has been happening for over 40 years.
Rather than pointing at ambiguous 6 o'clock news and blindly judging what I know, please state some facts that refute my statements.
If you actually have a valid point then present it. What did exactly happen?
Syria is a dictatorship, and it's under assault from (mostly) fanatical religious people. One does not always have to choose sides. It isn't always good vs evil. We need to be very clear that the ruling regime has a lot of blood on its hands. But I also understand the visceral hatred reserved for the muslim extremists who are on the other side of this war.
I imagine the rebels will win the civil war eventually, supported by the West all the way of course, but it won't be a victory for democracy or freedom or anything like that. Syria has a long and awful history, like most of the countries that surround it. Good guys do not exist in this region, at least not in a statistically meaningful number.
Also, seriously? Global Research is a source?
That's $360,000 per MINUTE (not second).
200*10^9/365/24/60/60 = 6342
Please look at this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi_al-Harati
He is the commander of the terrorists in Syria. These people are crazy islamists and all they believe is that they'll save Syria by killing people.
Please see the truth. The Al Jazeera analysis linked above is really good.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/10/2011102799...
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/06/20126410503...
Before the terrorists you're referring to went into Syria, the regime was brutally terrorizing its own citizens. There are countless of videos that prove it. It's the very actions of the mafia-like Syrian regime that has lead the country to where it is today, unfortunately.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-...
> the regime was brutally terrorizing its own citizens. There are countless of videos that prove it.
Where are videos - have you verified them? Didn't think so.
Re: Houla - carried out by NATO backed terrorists, confirmed in a UN report.
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2012...
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2012...
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2012...
This is part of massacre marketing strategy by NATO, Qatar et al:
Writing in Bild, [2] longtime German war correspondent Jurgen Todenhofer accused the rebels of "deliberately killing civilians and then presenting them as victims of the government". He described this "massacre-marketing strategy" as being "among the most disgusting things that I have ever experienced in an armed conflict"
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NG24Ak02.html
So you fully support killing civilians to aid a propaganda effort?
Had you even lived in Syria, you'd realize how it's virtually impossible to get an accurate and true poll. There's absolutely no freedom of expression. Citizens don't trust each other. There's around 275 intelligence officers for each Syrian citizen. The country is littered with the picture of the ruling Assad mafia that's shoved down the throat of all citizens. The vast majority of Syrians are scared to death of government. I know this, since not only have I lived there, I have many relatives and friends who have been either imprisoned, tortured, or exiled for simply speaking out.
Obviously, the government does have some support, but it's vast majority of supporters are beneficiaries of the government or are dependent on the government for their source of income. Add to that the brainwashing and fear the government has instilled in its own citizens for over 40 years, and it's not surprising to see such reports.
> Where are videos - have you verified them?
Yes, many of those videos have been verified.
> So you fully support killing civilians to aid a propaganda effort?
What a ridiculous question. You very well know my position about advocating for the rights and freedom of civilians. But, that question demonstrates many of the classic logical fallacies in your entire argument.
The Syrian government has been terrorizing its own citizens before your claimed propaganda efforts were in the picture. Sure, there are players that are now taking advantage of the situation, but that doesn't invalidate the claim that the main responsible party in the destruction of the country is the Syrian regime, which has allowed other parties to take advantage.
You are clearly not who you claim to be. You're either a liar or a shill. You created your profile a day ago:
https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dsaber
I note that you are unable to engage in any of the critical issues.
> Had you even lived in Syria
You've never lived in Syria - you're a fake.
Contact me directly & I'll get one of my Syrian friends to have a chat with you.
What were the main electoral issues for the 2012 elections?
> Yes, many of those videos have been verified.
You have failed to provide any evidence of this. You dont seem to understand the difference between assertion & fact.
Facts & evidence please - not assertion.
> There's around 275 intelligence officers for each Syrian citizen
275 * 20.82 million citizens = 5500 million intelligence officers? You're an idiot.
> You very well know my position about advocating for the rights and freedom of civilians.
NO, we don't know your position.
> , that question demonstrates many of the classic logical fallacies in your entire argument.
Such as?
Yeah, didn't think so. If you even knew what a logical fallacy was you would have stated it.
> What a ridiculous question.
You don't seem to understand a rhetorical question. So I'll put it more clearly for you:
You are supporting killing civilians to aid a propaganda effort.
Again, we note that you do not acknowledge the fact that: - NATO backed death squads were responsible for the Houla massacre; - western media tried to blame the Syrian government; - western media ignored the UN report exonerating the Syrian government;
> your claimed propaganda efforts
There's nothing claimed - the propaganda effort is a FACT.
Also the death & destruction on the ground is not claimed, it's a fact.
> the main responsible party in the destruction of the country is the Syrian regime
Yet again, incorrect.
Snipers from Dagestan armed with US produced M40A3 rifles started shooting civilians in 2011.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27955.htm
http://www.ozyism.com/2011/12/us-sniper-squad-caught-on-vide...
There are over 300 European mercenaries languishing in Syrian jails:
http://www.ozyism.com/2012/06/40-german-arms-smugglers-arres...
There are over 20000 Foreign Mercenaries in Syria:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/americas-uncleared-war-nearly-2...
http://www.kurdnas.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&v...
A United Nations Independent Commission, has confirmed that: - contractors hired by the Pentagon were training the terrorists in the use of chemical weapons; - terrorists possess sarin nerve gas, which they are using against the civilian population
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=United+Nations+Independent...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/pentagon-contractors-have-train...
Furthermore, Qatar has been implicated in a plot to procure chemical weapons from a UK security company for use by the death squads, hoping to blame the government.
http://www.infowars.com/hack-reveals-washington-approved-pla...
All of which you seem quite happy with.
It is obvious you have no empathy for the suffering of the Syrian people & fully support the killing of civilians by NATO death squads.
Not only have I lived in Syria, I was also born there. It's precisely because I previously lived in Syria that I care deeply about the issue and care for the country. It's precisely because I still have relatives there (who most are now refugees in Turkey) that I care about this issue. I clearly can't help you if you want to think I'm lying.
I'll take on your offer and contact you directly. You haven't left your contact info though. Do provide it and we'll get in touch.
> 275 * 20.82 million citizens = 5500 million intelligence officers? You're an idiot.
Sure, I'm an idiot. Given how smarter you are and how much you know about Syria, you should have corrected my statement and indicated that I mistakenly reversed the ratio. My originally intended statement of 1 intelligence officer to every 275 citizen still holds.
> All of which you seem quite happy with.
It's interesting that most of your sources are ones that match the exact message of the Syrian regime, about the entire world conspiring against them. Your sources also happen to be the same ones that speak about other conspiracy theories, like 9/11 being an inside job, the Boston marathon bombing being staged, etc.
> It is obvious you have no empathy for the suffering of the Syrian people & fully support the killing of civilians by NATO death squads.
Who said I like NATO being involved? Given how much you're singling out NATO, are you ok with the Syrian regime involving Iran and Hizboullah with the conflict and stirring sectarian strife?
Using your logic, I can say the same thing about you. You have no empathy for the suffering of the people there, given how much you support the current Syrian regime, which is ranked among the most repressive regimes on earth.
However, I'm not going to use your flawed logic here. I'm pretty sure you care for the Syrian people and the hundreds that are dying every single day. You just happen to believe the Syrian regime and the conspiracy theories. This is what the Syrian regime is good at: misinformation. Unfortunately, being on the Syrian regime's side is a dark future for Syria. It led the country no where for over 40 years; what makes you think it will suddenly change now?
As for me, I'm on the side of the people advocating for peace, freedom, dignity, and liberty. The Syrian regime does not have the best interest of the country in mind. It's run like a mafia, ruled by one family for over 40 years. At the same time, I'm also against foreign intervention. Unfortunately, the conflict right now is at a point where a lot of evil people are going to take advantage of, including governments, extremists, and others. Those sides need to be stopped as well. But who gave them the opportunity to get involved? That's right, the Syrian regime and its actions.
My brother studies in Hatay, a city near Syria. This city used to be a safe, liberal city.
Until the fucking "civil war".
Now, it's filled by a kind of some radical islamists migrated from Syria because of the "civil war". Now women and children in Hatay are afraid of going out of their home because their streets are full of aggressive and criminal North Syrian extreme islamists.
Check those links. This war is definitely not for democracy.
Yeah, some of the militias aren't interested in democracy, and some are funded by external powers that have various interests in Syria. It's still a civil war.
As you can see the prove in my other comments, Free Syrian Army was established by a NATO sponsored Libyan terrorist. As you can see in their videos, these fucking terrorists don't even speak the Syrian dialect of Arabic.
We are talking about a global terrorist organization and huge manipulations made by NATO countries to legalize this terrorism.
Please go to do some research.
I'm not saying syria is or isn't one, but you got me thinking about how a civil war could very well be labeled terrorism and vice versa depending on the spin you wanted to put on it.
Incorrect: this is an external destablisation by NATO, Qatar et al. & a heroic defence by the Syrian people.
Who is training, funding & supporting the death squads in Syria? NATO, under the supervision of Robert Stephen Ford:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-salvador-option-for-syria-u...
Negroponte/Ford were resposible for running the death squads in central America in the 80's & Iraq in 2004 onwards.
If Mexico & Canada were sending snipers to the US & some libertarians joined in - would you call that a civil war?
Sure, there's all sorts of crazies involved now, but there are also still plenty of Syrians involved. Which makes it a civil war.
I don't know what the truth about the situation in syria is, nor do i think i ever fully will no matter how many youtube videos/interviews i watch, however from what i have seen of the government's response to the protests makes me lean towards thinking that government is not deserving of the power it has.
The power vacuum it leaves behind will be much worse for Syria than the regime. And that's not even counting the damage that all the external forces will be doing.
Please take a look at how Egypt is now. The new government all you internet activists supported is now willing to destroy the pyramids because "there is only one god" according to their crazy fucking mind.
FSA is even, and much more worse. You'll see what the evil beast once they get the chance.
Even now, there are disgusting videos of them forcing christians to be muslim. All their motivation is jihad. That people don't believe in democracy. They are actually the evil beasts.
That's an interesting read, if nothing else.
The regime is still alive because no outside force is really doing anything.
Do you even read the news?
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/05/killing-syria...
You clearly haven't got a clue about the events of the past 2 years.
The NATO can take the regime down in a week.