Comment by davidw | Hacker News Reader

Comment by davidw | Hacker News Reader

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A few additions:

* The parenthesis do require that you have at least a moderately capable editor to navigate them effectively. You can start coding things like PHP, Perl, Ruby, Python, etc... with a pretty crappy editor and do ok.

* NIH - bingo! Lisp has always struck me as being very insular, with a very strong 'turtles all the way down' mentality. "It would really be best if the OS were written in Lisp too...", whereas the "scripting" languages are very promiscuous in terms of what they will interact with and run on. This has led them to focus on doing what they are good at, and calling out to C or other languages for what they are not so good at, which is ultimately more productive than rewriting existing systems just so that they'll be 100% in your language of choice. (Yes, sure, not everyone in the Lisp world is like that, but I get that general feeling).

>> The parenthesis do require that you have at least a moderately capable editor to navigate them effectively.

I disagree, with a caveat--writing code using a terrible editor requires knowledge of the indentation rules for the language, regardless of whether that language is a lisp, Perl, Ruby, etc.

However (the caveat), although the indentation rules for Perl, C, Python are relatively simple (indent after a '{' or ':', line up arguments), each function/macro in a lisp can have different indenting rules (e.g. in CL compare `let' to `multiple-value-bind' to functions, to lists, to the various `with-*' macros, etc).

Once you know the library for a specific implementation, the indentation rules become more obvious; at this point, using (e.g.) Notepad isn't particularly terrible (until that knowledge is acquired, though, yikes).

Notepad is exactly what I'm talking about. With Perl, C, and Ruby, at least, there really aren't any indentation rules - your program will work fine even if you don't put any in at all, or do a hacky job of it. With Lisp, especially when modifying someone else's code you're stuck counting parens.

Oh, also a weird (maybe crackpot?:-) theory of mine: parenthesis, graphically, don't form a nice, rigid vertical line, but sort of point diagonally, possibly making it just that much harder to see how they line up. In any case, 4 or 8 space indented C/Tcl/Ruby/whatever code is certainly more obvious to the eye.

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