I respect their intentions and I am sure they are doing good work. Regardless as a matter of principle I do not donate to organizations that discriminate on the basis of sex.
Men are not being hurt by the existence of PyLadies in any way.
The question is whether or not PyLadies allows men to join as full members. I honestly have no clue. I'm sure it would be easy to see it that way since it is described as a group of women.
Now the question of whether all discrimination is bad is much more fun to ask.
What exactly are you looking for? PyLadies is not a dues-paying organization. There's no screening process or special clubhouse. Local PyLadies groups organize events (like hackathons, workshops, or happy hours) and people show up. Nobody stands at the door and checks your secret decoder ring to see if you're allowed in or not.
This line from pyladies.org has already been mentioned above:
> Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate!
Nevertheless, it's still a fact that if you let people know "hey, there's going to be a hacknight this week, and most if not all of the attendees will be women" -- then many women would admit to feeling more comfortable in that sort of environment, and might subsequently be more likely to show up than they would otherwise.
Even admitted that I don't how they work. Reading their page and seeing them in action are two very different things. I have not had any direct interaction and therefor made no judgement of them. If they are in fact that open then they are not discriminating.
Now suppose we are in London, and there are women who want to learn Python but due to religion or upbringing would not be comfortable in mixed company.
Neither of these cases is "discrimination" against anyone. It's not any kind of aggression at all.
It's also not discrimination when there are women who feel intimidated by the main groups and want a group that is more explicitly friendly to women.
The real question is whether those forms of discrimination are acceptable. I would argue yes for both of those cases. I believe people should be able to choose their environments so that they are comfortable in them.
I take it you also oppose cancer groups then.
Now, if PyLadies was 'no men only,' it would absolutely be discriminatory: they're making a decision based on some kind of attribute. (It would also not be perpetuating 'sexism' since discrimination against men is not societaly re-enforced.)
The real question is 'is this bad?' I don't think that many people have a particular problem with discrimination when it's _for_ women or other minorities, especially when it's not at the _expense_ of everyone who's not within that group. A "women's only" programming group doesn't harm men in any way, yet helps women. I feel like this is the camp you may fall into. It is certainly the one I do.
You can take whatever you want from it. Not sure if you are taking from anything I said though....
It's so easy to see everything as a competitive zero-sum-game. So that anything that helps women must be hurting men, right?
It's wrong, but the idea is out there. Sigh.
Because frankly, I cannot see that going down well at all...
> Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate!
You're making an unfounded assumption that PyLadies is women only.
> We are an international mentorship group with a focus on helping more men become active participants and leaders in the Python open-source community.
How do you think that would go down?
Or are you arguing that all organizations that have a focus on expanding the role of a minority in a community that are inclusive to all in that community should be shut down because you believe some people would complain about having one focused on the majority?
That is some twisted and messed up logic there.
http://wearebit.com/ has quite the presence as SXSW. Haven't heard similar complaints about that...
They try to raise women up but often times manage to do so in such a way (special treatment, privilege) which eats away at the respectability of not only the women they're trying to raise up but other women who got there on their own merits.
I think we should do all we can to remove obstacles for women getting into tech', and that includes bad attitudes/sexism, however I think many of these organisations and "positive discrimination" are an obstacles that women unfortunately will need to overcome...
Please consider coming by one of the events!
If your goal is that nobody on earth would bat an eye, that's a pretty high bar to clear. Keep in mind that some people (and a healthy percentage of them represented here on HN) find the existence of Pyladies troublesome. I suspect a similar percentage would find the existence of Pygentlemen troublesome.
> Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate!
>
> http://www.pyladies.com/"PyLadies also aims to provide a friendly support network for women"
"Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate," toward the goals described above. The goals described above are discriminatory in a way with which I do not agree, hence my lack of support.