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Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

Sound reasonable to me. That judge is probably a parent. I suspect most parents understand: if we waited to be "ready", nobody would ever be a parent. Conventional parents get months and months of notice. If they're like me, they're still nowhere close to "ready". It's terrifying. But you, and these guys, and everyone else just do what we've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years.

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Indeed, the judge managed (on an ultra-compressed timescale) to provide this same-sex couple the same experience of surprise parenthood that alt-sex couples may have through an unplanned pregnancy.

This principle could be advanced more systematically. That is, perhaps adoption by same-sex couples should not just be permitted, but random and compulsory. If you're married and of child-rearing age, you might be assigned a baby!

The agency making the assignments can be called the State Taskforce Organizing Reproductive Co-equality, or STORC. So when these children ask where they came from, the happy parents can honestly say, "the STORC dropped you off".

"you might be assigned a baby!"

Oh, please god no.

Not ever having to worry about getting a phone call telling me I've gotten someone pregnant is right up there on the best-things-about-being-gay list with watching men's gymnastics at the Olympics and it being okay to own lots of shoes.

Are you trying to make us miserable?

You know what they say: we're giving you gay marriage so that you can be as miserable as we are.

It would need an opt out, much like contraception.

OK, but with a small non-zero chance of opt-out failure.

Fellow child-commenters: parent comment is best enjoyed as delightfully Swiftian.

"But you, and these guys, and everyone else just do what we've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years."

I don't mean to scare you, but that is the mother of all sampling bias (to quote xkcd). The parents that don't do so well, generally have a smaller chance of being grandparents. I'm sure all of you reading this will do just fine though.

I also need to say that that judge was awesome.

"The parents that don't do so well, generally have a smaller chance of being grandparents."

Some people would argue that those who don't do well as parents are more likely to have grandkids...

Depends on what "well" means. :)

or are more likely to have grandkids at an earlier age

If they neglect their kids so bad that they actually die, which I guess used to happen frequently before the invention of welfare etc.

Now you have a lot of not so great parents spawning at an alarming rate.

Ah yes. The social safety net is causing society to be overrun by a plague of undesirables. If we would only let people die in the streets, our society would be pure.

Edit: I'm being sarcastic.

That's an exaggeration, sterilisation should be sufficient.

Edit: I'm being sarcastic.

Not a bad idea. What if the government offered free tubal ligation and vasectomy. If you later want to have kids that cost is on you to reverse it.

Here in the UK at least basically everyone has access to free contraception, you can usually walk into a health clinic and ask for a bag of condoms and they will give them to you.

I think there may also be mechanisms for women to get the contraceptive pill gratis if they are on government support.

The issue is though that this requires some degree of responsibility and planning, which is almost by definition missing in people who breed irresponsibly. So you have a lot of people who want a lot of children or are at least indifferent to having them, however they have no financial means to support that many children. I guess if you have not been successful career-wise then having a large family might give one a sense of accomplishment.

The upshot of that is that it's not fair to let these kids starve so the government has to offer welfare to these families. For example it is much easier to get government subsidised housing if you have children. So you end up with a situation like we have in the UK where people sometimes have children because they will get a free house (and if you have more kids you get a bigger house) where otherwise they might be homeless or forced to live with parents etc.

So quite the vicious cycle.

at least in 2007 the pill was free as well.

Contraceptive implant, coil, IUD, all still free last time I checked. It's not only condoms. And if your local surgery can't provide what you want due to a skills shortage you can go to a sexual health clinic with no problem.

When I was chatting with the GUM clinic staff last time I had my implant changed, she was talking about how common it was for teens to have it, since it's such an easy fire and forget contraceptive.

Preventing STIs however, that's another issue.

Not a particularly vicious cycle given a society that a) only works if it grows b) only grows due to immigration

Which society are you talking about?

Parent said, "Here in the UK".

Although I think it applies to most of the first world.

An interesting definition of "first world" could be "the point where native deaths outweigh native births".

OK. So what makes you think that a society only works if it grows?

Hmmm, you might want to check out your pension plan. Also, have a look at your country's next published budget.

The vasectomy (and I guess the tube ligation as well, I haven't looked into it) is NOT reversible. You can try and there's some success rate, the sooner you do it the better chances, but it's not a reversible method.

Don't use it as contraception, it's easier to educate and use different methods.

>Don't use it as contraception,

Once you have decided that you do not under any circumstances want children, the only better way to prevent it is abstinence.

Some people do not ever want kids.

Why else would you have a vasectomy or tubal ligation if not for contraceptive reasons?

if we waited to be "ready", nobody would ever be a parent.

Pretty much all of my friends who have kids planned it out based on specific milestones (when we have a house, when we are making more money, when the wife is done with her residency, etc). Then 90% of the time life doesn't go as planned and milestones keep getting pushed back so they go "fuck it - we're getting old" and stop using birth control.

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