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It's been a while since the tablet market was defined as 'iPad'.

I didn't say that, what I said was that Apple's vision is that there's a market for tablets and that iPad will thrive as long as there's a market for tablets. Thrive as in 90%? 70%? 40%? 320% but 50% of the profit? Who knows.

But I don't define the tablet market as iPad and only iPad. And it's possible that Apple is wrong and that there isn't a tablet market. Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces.

This might just be a phase, just as PDAs were a phase until smartphones subsumed their functionality.

> the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop

Or maybe the iPad is a terrible Surface Pro :-P

But seriously:

> Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces.

Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on and have touch screens actually deserving of the name "tablet" (meaning you can draw on them).

That would be awesome because those actually are the two main things like to do on my computer, coding and drawing :)

But with the iPad's battery life and (lack of) heat.

It will also have an eInk screen on the back, and a programmable strip of LEDs on the sides. Also a strong, retractable piece of string loop, for if you're in a pinch and you need a wall clock, lamp or as a painting: when you're done working, set it to the "HOME SWEET HOME" screensaver on the eInk side, and hang it on the wall.

Anyone got an idea of how to work a 3D printer into a tablet? Cause we need those, too.

(so that cybercriminals can infect it with a virus that makes it build legs and walk away into the thief's hands)

(and people will still be complaining "if this is the future, where's our flying cars??!")

> Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on

Given the policies of Apple and Microsoft, I doubt it. Further, I would imagine that more and more machines will be locked down because security is now more important, generates link-bait headlines, and "failures" of security / privacy get your CEO dragged in front a congressional committee.

I am pretty sure you can install anything you want on the Surface Pro, and from any source you like. The Surface RT is locked down, but not the Pro as i understand it.

If you use the new API you must distribute through their app store.

I think it is important that recognize that neither company here has a "vision" at all. Both companies are just attempting to steer computing in the direction of the thing that they have been most (financially) successful with. For Microsoft, it's PCs, for Apple it's devices.

Personally I would go for single device that does everything I need. Something on the lines of what Ubuntu is doing. Even Surface to an extent solves this issue. I don't want to carry an iPhone to call/msg/listen to music, an iPad to casually use internet/read/play games and a laptop for everything else. Better carry one phone which does call/msg/music/internet,reading and minor editing/office stuffs when plugged to dock.

After owning an iPad mini I have to say that an as-light-as-possible 7'' tablet appears to be one more device that's very useful have / bring along. It allows you reading / media consumption on a device with a satisfying screen size that's as light as a medium paperback book, i.e. you can hold it for extended periods without getting tired.

So an Ubuntu phone?

Both visions are likely correct, to a degree. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a "post-PC" world is one without keyboards and mice or open platforms. However, there are obviously many fundamental improvements to personal computing that have been made in the mobile space (multi-touch UI, fully OS managed application lifecycles, simplified visual elements, etc.) but the idea that the way the iPad happens to work today should be the model for all future computing is a bit ridiculous.

> If Microsoft's vision of everyone needing a computer is correct, the Surface pro will destroy the laptop. But if Apple's vision of a "post-PC" world is correct, the vast majority of the tablet market will be just tablets, and the iPad will continue to thrive.

That's the reason why MS should be willing to spend a boat-load of money on backing the Surface - if they can't create a post-PC world ruled by x86 devices, they are in serious trouble.

"Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine."

Common, this is so childish... As if other devices don't get hot and don't weight that much.

You are very wrong in thinking that company X will take over the world. There are different people with different needs. Hipsters like hip devices, cartoonists like Surface Pro's.

jacquesm points it out: the iPad market might still be the biggest but it's not the only market.

Childish? I feel old, stuck in world where HN was civil and we didn't abuse each other with accusations of childishness.

I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap. The review specifically states that he did experience it running too hot for his comfort. I read that the surface pro is 2 lbs, while a full-sized iPad is less than 1.5 lbs.

Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world. In fact, I stated that the market for people who want a laptop and a tablet may be wll-served by the Surface Pro rather than a laptop plus a tablet.

Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?

"Childish?" I was abusing you of a childish reaction because I think your tone towards Windows systems is unfair.

"Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world." No you didn't but you made it clear that you think only Apple can serve the tablet market because you explicitly mention the iPad all the time. You also compared Microsoft's vision vs Apple's vision as if these are the only two companies in the tablet/laptop market.

"Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?" I was responding to your actual comment and I think you also are saying things that other people are saying. But that didn't trigger a reflex ;) I responded because I don't agree with you. I think a comparison between 2 companies is wrong because it's not what matters in the real world. There are a lot of different devices serving different needs. I don't think the laptop or desktop will go away any time soon because they are still very relevant.

>"I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap."

They are not running portal 2, league of legends or sketchbook either. Those are natural trade-offs where Apple sacrifices productivity and Microsoft sacrifices portability.

Both Portal 2 and League of Legends run well on low end integrated graphics cards. The iPad may not have those particular games, but Unreal Engine 3 games are generally more demanding than Source Engine games, and there are several UE3 titles on iOS.

I had worked with Unreal Engine in both PC and the Ipad and the performance difference was abysmal.

In order to make it run we had to downsize the art and make several optimizations.

The last time I ran that game was on an Ipad 2 so that might changed with the last generation, but giving that experience I find very impressive that Surface Pro can run PC games out of the box in a satisfactory way.

One of the reasons' the iPad has held on to its lead in the Tablet market is due to how efficient and powerful its' graphics processors are, both h/w and its software implementations.

Top of the line PowerVR chips always launch on Apple hardware, and by the time they trickle down to its competitors Apple has a new product featuring a successor around the corner.

As someone who has used both the iPad 2 and an iPad 4, the graphical performance gap is significant.

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/sketchbook-pro-for-ipad/id36...

Nonetheless I certainly don't agree with raganwald. They seem to believe that there are two options of which one must win. In actuality there are thousands of options, and all of them can win in their niche.

In this case it's a guy who sketches online comics. I appreciate their review and completely get where they're coming from, but the things that are valuable to them are not at all valuable to me.

Amusing disclosure: The Sketchbook Team Lead is a long-time friend of mine. Sketchbook was developed in Toronto by Alias software just a few blocks from where I worked at KL Group on JProbe "back in the day."

So I'm extremely familiar with the fact that it runs on iPads :-)

which isn't such a bad thing, if you ask me. I own a iPad, for some time now, and I still have yet to find anything that it's good at. Saying it's bad at not having a clear function or productive use, support for real computing tasks.

I'm sure some companies would love to see a world where we all access the cloud from iThinClients, but the reality of the situation is that even if the US had great broadband connectivity, nobody wants to deal with 5-200ms of UI lag or with glitchy client-prediction methods.