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Comment by speeder | Hacker News Reader

I found funny how much people are bashing the stylus.

I don't get it.

I bought 4 weeks ago (and last week it got destroyed in a flood :( ) a resistive-screen 7 inch tablet, and I loved it.

At first, I got annoyed, because light touches did not worked, until I remembered that I could use plastic stylus with it, also my nails, other random objects, and so on.

Then I started to use it primarily instead of my Xperia Play, even having way worse hardware, because it was so much easy to use, with the stylus I can visit non-mobile webpage and click small links without issues, also I can draw, and so several other things, much easier.

But hey, I always hated touchscreens (I own a Xperia Play because at least to play games it has buttons, and I needed a smartphone, because after 5 years developing for them, not owning one was silly at least), so, don't mind me.

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I found funny how much people are bashing the stylus.

On the surface they're a downright goofy looking non-necessity, but as a dude that spends all day developing a touch UI, with that much interaction I had to get one and now I can't go without one personally or professionally.

And you don't see any problems with the fact that you now require a short stick to get anything done on your mobile device?

I don't get it; Why do styluses (plural?) get such a bad rep.? It's not like this is a new invention, they've been around for ages, and how is it dissimilar to a mouse for a PC? or a pen used to take notes in a notebook? It's not as though you can't use you finger for short tasks like making a phone call.

I hate to say this as I will either get downvoted to hell or start a fanboi war, but I really do think that if Apple had produced a stylus device for the iphone/ipad, those that are complaining would be saying quite the opposite.

But they didn't, did they? And why was that, exactly? I don't necessarily have a problem with styli, I just think they're a niche tool without much universal appeal, and for a good reason.

It is not dissimilar at all to a mouse, or a pen, or a screwdriver, or any of those things. It's just that those are older tools compared to the touch interfaces we currently have and use to great effect, without styli. And that is awesome. That is a great thing, a beautiful simplification, and it works, and that's amazing.

You're of course welcome to use them if you prefer, but what Apple did (hey, you started it) was create a device which was simple enough and useful enough without a short stick to make that short stick as antiquated as a mouse or a pen.

They made the short stick obsolete, because it adds unneeded additional complexity. I resent your assertion that people believe this is a better method just because Apple made it that way; as though all logic and truth comes from the Great Jobs in the sky and is as He said it, amen. Quite simply, screw that. It's better because it's a simpler basic design, that's all.

The irony is that people are buying those little rubber iPhone/iPad styli like hotcakes these days. I really wish I were the person who came up with that, because the royalties must be rolling in. And damn they're good for Draw Something; you should see my girlfriend's mom's drawings, they're incredible. I admit that styli are excellent for those specialized purposes.

But for the basic use of a touch-sensitive device? As an integral part of the UI experience? No thanks. Keep it simple, stupid.

I still don't get it, the first half of your post backs up your original stance, whilst the second half agrees with what I said that it's not a necessity (for basic things you can use your finger).

Doesn't the irony you highlight in your post regarding people buying "those little rubber iPhone/iPad styli like hotcakes these days", indicate that people find it easier to use a stylus for certain things? A stylus is certainly a part of the UX, but not an integral part.

Using your finger is not the best option for all scenarios, if that was the case we would have been dipping our finger in the ink pot instead of a quill.

This is akin to saying "And you don't see any problems with the fact you require a screwdriver to loosen a screw". The stylus is a tool which improves on your fingers in a number of ways (principally in diameter and greasiness). Your phrasing your comment like using a stylus is a mortal sin. What, in your opinion, are the problems with requiring a "short stick" to get anything done on a mobile device?

You lose it. You need a short stick.

Styluses are good when emulating a pen or pencil or paint brush is good. Painting and drawing apps on tablets are pretty awesome. I really wish Apple would integrate Wacom technology.

But I don't want to pull out a stylus to browse a website or play a game or make a call, or type a message.

We spent about five millennia not being able to write anything without short sticks. I daresay that it's not an insuperable problem to have.

And you don't see any problems with the fact that you now require a short stick to get anything done on your mobile device?

I didn't say that.

Mobile device have been and continue to be a bit shit on the "get anything done" front for a bucketful of reasons anyway, so I tend not to care all that much if I carry around a stick in the same jacket pocket as my bluetooth mini-keyboard. Unless you count dicking around on twitter and facebook as getting things done, its a fight to do anything with a mobile interface, I'll take whatever advantage I can get.

Usually the problem is simply having a device be tightly coupled to your stylus (i.e. lose stylus and it's a near worthless piece of plastics or touching is rather clunky), so you need to take care of two things - phone and stylus.

Is that actually the case with any modern device?

I have used, and loved, the handwritting recognition of Sony Ericsson P910i. It was very fast to use -- while stylus based. Every friend of mine who dared to try it loved it instantly.

I wonder how it stacks, long term, against finger-based on-screen keyboard of current breed of iDevices.

There is something telling in the volume of bashing. When the Galaxy Note came out it was bashed by the Apple-sphere with incredible intensity. That should have been a good hint that it would do well : very well.

Larger phones have been bashed with ferocity. Until the iPhone 5, of course, when (I suppose), it was done "right".

Smaller tablets were bashed with ferocity. Until the iPad Mini, of course, when it was done "right".

We've seen the same thing over and over again. It can never be that Apple is behind or isn't moving quickly enough -- it has to be spun that they're ahead by moving so slowly.

"When the Galaxy Note came out it was bashed by the Apple-sphere with incredible intensity. That should have been a good hint that it would do well : very well."

Plenty of things are bashed by the Apple-sphere, what ever that is, and those products don't do well. Since you've turned this into some weird Android vs. iOS thing I'd like to point out that very few manufacturers, of handsets/tablets running Android, are doing well.

"Larger phones have been bashed with ferocity. Until the iPhone 5, of course, when (I suppose), it was done "right"."

So what's new here? I still don't like larger phones and probably never will. I'm actually not sure why you wrote this or what conclusion you feel it supports.

"Smaller tablets were bashed with ferocity. Until the iPad Mini, of course, when it was done "right"."

No source cited so I'd just like to point out that the actual tablets were being bashed not the size.

"We've seen the same thing over and over again. It can never be that Apple is behind or isn't moving quickly enough -- it has to be spun that they're ahead by moving so slowly."

It also can never be that Apple is doing just fine. Honestly I'm not even sure what you mean by 'behind.'

"No source cited so I'd just like to point out that the actual tablets were being bashed not the size."

Guess the source:

"Well, one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference. It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size. Apple's done extensive user-testing on touch interfaces over many years, and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touch screen before users cannot reliably tap, flick, or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."

what ever that is

You doubt the existence of something, yet make firm statements about it. That is an odd choice of statements (where you essentially want to have it both ways).

There is an industry of pundits and mouthpieces who exist on the backs of Apple's fanbase, with John Gruber and Philip Elmer-Dewitt being two of the most obvious: They make a living essentially heralding whatever Apple does, linking to others who do the same, and deriding and belittling those who do otherwise. This does not exist for most other industries (is there even an Android equivalent to John Gruber? I mean, there are probably people trying to be, but most people don't need that confirmation of their likes so such a tactic is simply unprofitable in most other realms).

Since you've turned this into some weird Android vs. iOS thing I'd like to point out that very few manufacturers, of handsets/tablets running Android, are doing well.

What a rejoinder. Few handset/tablet makers running anything but iOS are doing well, aside from Samsung. Which, of course, is the topic of this discussion.

No source cited so I'd just like to point out that the actual tablets were being bashed not the size.

That is the revisionist history to try to make lemonade out of lemons. Only when Steve made his infamous statement Android had already (for years) had a density-independent layout structure that adapts screen elements to size (quite unlike iOS, if that contrast needs to be made). The argument was utter nonsense, and it remains nonsense.

It seemed pedantic to act like I couldn't make a leap of imagination. Seriously, can you define the Apple-sphere in any meaningful way? I made a best guess; but wanted to make it clear that all I did was guess; i.e. I don't actually know, for sure, what was being talked about. This is important because my guess probably isn't correct and if it's not correct then my point may or may not be correct.

I might not agree with what was posted but I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt.

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