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Comment by phasevar | Hacker News Reader

If you write single-page web apps, you owe it to yourself to check out Ember.js. The learning curve is a little steep, but once you get up and running you can't beat it for a client side MVC.

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Can't beat it? It's good, but Angular.js is definitely a front-runner.

I chose Ember in part to make use of its sibling framework, ember-data. Is there a relational model abstraction that integrates well with Angular?

I think if we're going to start this debate that we need to substantiate the claims on both sides. This is probably not the ideal place for that debate, however.

On the contrary, I'd love to hear the debate! If not here then where?

here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5230636

Ah, thank you very much.

they are very differnt , DI is great but all the directive lifecycle pisses me off sometimes. and dirtychecking on huge collections? without a native Object.observe it is slow.

For what it's worth, it's not clear how Object.observe will substantially improve the performance of large collections.

For example, if you insert an item at position 0 of a 10,000 item array, Object.observe will publish a change for every item (since they are all moved one item down). It is then up to the receiver of those changes to reverse engineer what exactly happened (which is slow).

What is needed is Array observers, which would notify the index of the change, number of items removed, and any items added (the `splice` signature). Ember emulates this, but by using a different API than the normal Array API. I hope that future extensions to Object.observe will support Array observation.

As a member of TC39, I worked closely with several members of the Chrome team on Object.observe and hope to work with them again on an Array extension to the spec to make Array observation faster. I yearn for a future where Ember can get good performance without having to ask our users to use an alternative API.

> I yearn for a future where Ember can get good performance without having to ask our users to use an alternative API.

Could you explain what you mean by: ". . . ask our users to use an alternative API"?

Thanks!

I think he's referring to the get/set accessors (e.g. `myObject.set('foo', bar)` instead of `myObject.foo = bar`).

Here are some resources:

# http://emberjs.com/guides/object-model/classes-and-instances...

# http://jfire.io/blog/2012/04/19/why-ember-dot-js-doesnt-use-...

# http://emberjs.com/api/classes/Ember.Array.html

Things like this make me extremely wary of Angular's DI: http://www.alexrothenberg.com/2013/02/11/the-magic-behind-an...

MVC can be used to build websites, but I prefer something more like MVVM (which may be MS term, I don't know) so I would stick with Knockout.js

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