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Comment by PakG1 | Hacker News Reader

I think this is fantastic, especially given that I had recently purchased some Tesla stock. However, I wonder, is anyone perturbed that Tesla has the ability to monitor all of this? I know that other car manufacturers are getting closer and closer to this kind of thing. But is anyone else perturbed? I know there must be precedents set already because of technologies like OnStar. What is needed for the police or a court of law to be able to demand this type of data from Tesla or the vehicle owner (not sure where the logs are kept, in the car or in the cloud).

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> However, I wonder, is anyone perturbed that Tesla has the ability to monitor all of this?

Tesla has made a public policy statement that they will turn on logging and monitor media test drives -- but they won't be automatically monitoring the private uses of their car. That would be a public relations disaster.

Also, to get to the log, they have to get to the car. It's not as though the log is automatically transmitted to Tesla by wireless.

EDIT: Apparently, with the user's permission, Tesla can log car data remotely. How they go about this isn't clear, but it's apparently an option.

Actually, assuming they had your permission, they could record all of this data remotely, just as you can: http://docs.timdorr.apiary.io/

Thanks -- as to the remote logging, I looked into this and it seems to be so. I edited my original post.

They actually turn it off by default except for the press.

I think when insurance companies, technology and public opinion catch up, it will be an always-on thing. I want that kind of logging if my car gets stolen. I want that kind of logging if I get hit by a cop and he calls his buddies to alter the evidence to make me at fault (this has happened to people).

This kind of log data will only result in lower insurance premiums for everyone and evidence useful in court. The potential savings to society are tremendous.

This kind of log data will only result in lower insurance premiums for everyone and evidence useful in court.

As long as everyone needs coverage, and accidents remain the same, the insurance company will need to pay out about the same and therefore collect something similar. That means that average premiums will not change across the population.

However you can move costs from lower risk drivers to higher risk drivers. Which may help YOUR premiums.

If all the bad drivers start getting charged more for their insurance, they might stop driving altogether and take public transit or work to become better drivers, which could ultimately lower accidents, a good outcome for everyone.

Indeed. My enthusiasm at the idea led me to say "for everyone" when in fact you are correct.

I should have said "for non-idiot drivers"

Discovery Insurance in South Africa has a car insurance policy that lowers your premiums based on the data from a logger they install in your car. Drive below the speed limit, avoid hard acceleration from traffic lights and avoid cornering at high speeds and they lower your premiums by something like 50%.

Of course it's still an optional policy for now and easy to implement because most insurance companies insist that new vehicles in SA are fitted with a GPS car tracking system anyway, but it's an indication as to where things are heading.

Is the GPS requirement an anti-theft measure? There's nothing like that in the US, AFAIK.

Yes, vehicle theft and hijacking rates are a lot higher in South Africa than in the US and the recovery rate for a vehicle with a tracker system is massively better than for those without.

One of the biggest risks with tracker systems is that if you're hijacked the criminals may force you to give up the unit's location if you know it, so it's been made public knowledge that when the tracking companies install one of the units (which is small enough to be hidden in many different places in a car's body) the owner is forbidden from watching it being done. So I have absolutely no idea where the tracker unit in my car is.

Most of those tracking companies then have their own helicopter fleets and armed response teams to initiate the search and recovery of the car and either back up the police when they reach the scene or perform the arrest themselves.

As an aside, the US equivalent is LoJack which operates in pretty much the same way, with the exception that LoJack signals are sent to the police, not to the tracking company's response units.

This would be great and I'm sure it will come to fruition sooner or later. I wonder what will happen to the auto insurance industry when self driving cars are prolific. Undoubtedly they'll be logging this kind of data constantly.

The logging capability can be turned on at the owner's request, and only at the owner's request.

Unfortunately for the NYT, Tesla Motors was the owner of this particular car.

All car manufacturers have this sort of logging enabled. It's used especially for testing and on-board equipment.

This isn't what I had in mind, but serves to demonstrate the capabilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#Data_logge...

if you buy a Tesla you get to decide whether this is enabled or not (at least as of today). It's on by default only for journalists after the Top Gear "experience".

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