Hacker News Reader

Comment by jere | Hacker News Reader

I wonder how many emergency room visits (and deaths) are associated with coffee usage. I suspect the number is negligible, if not plain 0. With billions of cups of coffee consumed daily, I'm skeptical that it's really caffeine that is the villain.

The guy in the beginning supposedly consumed ~600mg of caffeine over 7 hours, which is roughly equivalent to a pot of coffee. That's high usage, but not at all unusual.

>“Your typical cup of coffee comes hot; you wouldn’t usually gulp it down.”

Speak for yourself. I'm a guy who one-shots his coffee before it even cools down.

View on HN

You know I initially typed out a long comment agreeing with you.. I was sure there was a lurking variable in that plot, but I looked up the study and sure enough, about half are strictly caffeine related. Which makes their lines a touch misleading in my option, because in the entire other half of the data, caffeine is just one more point in a cocktail of alcohol and narcotics. So including them in the plot is a bit strange.

So, there are quite a few caffeine only emergency visits, but if we're just going on caffeine issues, there's not enough in the study to see if there's really such a significant uptick in recent years for purely caffeine related issues.

Also, note that a large portion of the visits simply list "adverse effects," not "misuse" (which I would interpret as over consumption). So who knows whether or not these are high doses, or simply people who happen to roll the short end of the stick in regards to caffeine tolerance.

The guy at the beginning of the article consumed only ~600mg of caffeine, but he consumed between 7,000 and 8,000 mg of taurine which is over 2x safe daily consumption[1]. I don't think that drinking 600 mg of caffeine is good for you, but I don't think it's the primary culprit for hospitalizations. I'm thinking the other ingredients in energy drinks, such as taurine and guarana, play a major role.

Here's an interesting quote from a recent Atlantic article[2]: "Still, despite the fact that a Starbucks venti coffee has three times as much listed caffeine as a can of Monster, some people swear they're more wired after drinking an energy drink. That may be because of the extra caffeine in guarana. Energy drinks can advertise that they have the same amount of caffeine as a cup of coffee; but when you include guarana, they have a much stronger stimulant effect."

I found this chart from the Seattle Times comparing stimulant levels in energy drinks[3]. Not only does Monster have 160 mg of caffeine in each can, it also has 5,000 mg of guarana and 2,000 mg of taurine. That's a lot of stimulants for one can. I would be interested in seeing more in-depth studies on guarana and taurine.

[1] According to the Mayo Clinic, the recommended maximum daily intake of taurine is 3,000 mg (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/taurine/AN01856)

[2] http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/how-much-c...

[3] seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/health/links/energydrinkchart10.pdf

    > Still, despite the fact that a Starbucks venti coffee has 
    > three times as much listed caffeine as a can of Monster, 
    > some people swear they're more wired after drinking an 
    > energy drink.

Sugar?

Sugar has been proven not to induce hyperactivity, it's a common misconception.

http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2012/10/31/debunking-a-hallowe...

Energetic and alert doesn't have to mean hyperactive. I was thinking more of general blood sugar/glucose level.

Inserting quick carbs into your body will most likely start the engine in some way.

Energy drinks like Red Bull or Monster are also sweetened. Consuming sugar is going to raise your heart rate...

No one drinks house Starbucks coffee. They put two shots (80 mg of caffeine) into a 22-oz cup of milk and sugar. Drink enough of those to have a caffeine problem and you will have had an obesity problem long prior.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious about "latte drinking culture" or not, but I will tell you that there are plenty of people who order a Venti Bold coffee (actually less caffeine than a light roast) from Starbucks on a daily basis and don't add sugar or cream.

"I wonder how many emergency room visits (and deaths) are associated with coffee usage. I suspect the number is negligible, if not plain 0. With billions of cups of coffee consumed daily, I'm skeptical that it's really caffeine that is the villain."

As an EMS provider, my anecdotal data would say the number is low, but definitely not zero. Typically, associated with excessive and/or irresponsible usage (witness people who take their first ever dose of Hydroxycut and chug two Monsters, having a bout of tachycardia and an accompanying panic attack - certainly nothing life-threatening in and of itself, but on the other hand, if there's an underlying cardiac sensitivity...)

He's specifically asking about coffee as opposed to other caffeinated drinks, I think.

That's right. The article was indicting caffeine, yet the presented graph is "ER visits associated with energy drinks"

And, again anecdotally, I experience much more concerning side effects from drinking a couple red bulls or monsters than I do from downing 4 espressos at once.

People have been drinking coffee and tea for thousands of years. Monster and 5-Hour-Energy, a decade? People seem to die from that stuff but not coffee. When in doubt, err on the side of stuff proven by time.

People have been hospitalised (and perhaps died, not sure) from too much coffee, however it does tend to be in quite extreme circumstances. I recall a teenage girl in the UK who drank 18 espressos about a year ago who ended up in hospital, for example. I completely agree with you, however.

I can drink a cool, sweet liquid like it's juice. Ingesting absurd amounts is much harder when the substance is hot, bitter and tends to give you a bad aftertaste and an acidic stomach.

Caffeine sensitivity is a real thing, as is slow caffeine metabolism (a different, but related situation.)

Please do not assume that everyone is the same.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com