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Comment by FireBeyond | Hacker News Reader

What a strange claim. "Looking back", he can't help but feel discriminated against due to his height.

It couldn't possibly be because of his "no formal eduction, no experience with any big clients", could it?

That would be a great argument if my peers had formal education or experience with big clients. None of them did.

There is no "point" to be made by my post, rather a description of two vastly different ways I was treated for the same work I was doing during the same point in my life — one online, one in person.

All the same, you should be careful about using deductive reasoning in this way. You're assuming that the only criteria upon which you were measured were formal education and experience with big clients, but what about how you struck them emotionally? Did you have that trustworthy/hardworking/whatever air about you that perhaps some of your colleagues had? Did your mode of dress impress them as much as for other candidates? Had the interviewer seen one-too-many people with the exact same qualifications as you, and thus was looking for a little something more that he didn't search for with the other hires before he got desensitized?

I'm not saying that it WASN'T height discrimination; I'm just saying that you should be careful about concluding such things so easily.

You might not be saying it, but you certainly are implying it.

It's possible to nit-pick potential reasons for bias against some unknown stranger on the internet while discounting his actual experiences and feelings.

It's also reasonable to ask whether there is another side to someone's story beyond what they're telling you.

As an anecdote: I'm 5'6", and I don't think this has been a barrier to anything.

I've had to be more careful about my appearance, of course. My clothes fit well, I'm lean, and I work out.

Despite my diminutive stature, men get out of my way, because I look strong and I walk confidently. Men didn't do this until I got strong.

I get looks from girls all the time. They don't seem to care that I'm in about the 2nd percentile, height wise.

Attitude about height is often more important than actual height for a man. Things would probably be easier if I were taller, but being short is far from the insurmountable obstacle it's made out to be.

Agreed, but I think you're selling yourself short on your percentile: http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.p...

That's says he's 10th percentile in the US, right? Although that's true, I'm guessing if you corrected for the ethnic and social groups he's judged against that you'd find 2% is pretty accurate.

Interesting, thanks. Hadn't looked up those stats in years and lowballed it as a result.

My weight percentile is around 40%. I feel good about that compared to my height percentile, since it's muscle and not fat.

How much does it matter to you that you're taken seriously? Does it satisfy you that you intimidate other men and get attention from women?

I don't go out of my way to intimidate men. It's a side effect.

It's also an example of how short =! disrespected, as OP was implying.

I'm pretty sure anyone would not be too upset if that suddenly started happening.

Height is actually a weird one when people get fixated on it. I worked with a guy once who was about 5,5 but was absolutely obsessed with "height discrimination". He filtered everything that happened to him through that lens and it severely warped his view on reality and it kept him from addressing real issues that would have made him a more hireable employee.

I think we've all met people like you describe. But let's not tar the author with that either. What he describes does indeed happen all the time, and you don't need to invoke irrational discrimination to explain it: employers offer lower salaries to the young and inexperienced because they can (these people are hungrier, "need" the jobs more, and have fewer options) and because it saves them money. That's maybe not noble but it's not insane either. This may be especially true in the web development world which (to my eyes as a 41 year old systems hacker) is populated by a much larger fraction of young and inexperienced developers. Unless you're a true rockstar, there are a half dozen candidates just as good as you willing to take that job.

I'm 5'5" myself and rarely even think about it, other than to make the occasional self-deprecating joke about it. Everyone's life experience is different but I think you are right that people can focus on more insignificant "shortcomings" (har har!) to take focus off their real problems.

If you have demonstrably great work, what does formal education do for you that will affect your work for some company? Similarly, if this guy isn't the one landing the client or dealing directly with them on a regular basis, how can the pixels possibly care about for whom they are assembled?

I read these parts of his anecdotes as excuses concocted only after an in-person meeting.

I have heard that people with formal education are less likely to flake out on jobs. As in just stop showing up. Which is both important and independent of the quality of your work. Granted it's anecdotal evidence, but hiring is far from one dimensional.

What -should- be the case and what is the case are often demonstrably, and substantially different.

Witness government organizations who pay $x for a position, or $x * 1.25 for the same position if you have a degree, for but one example.

Completing formal ed generally indicates good character and work ethic in a person. They will focus on the task, get it done well and on time, are reliable, polite, think problems through, work well with others too, etc. Conversely, it is possible to be very talented technically but have a poor character, which will inevitably create problems.

Raw talent is just one factor in finding good employees. A successful company requires well-rounded individuals, or a strong structure if you're going to successfully incorporate poorly-rounded individuals. Everyone in a company has to work together in a team in some fashion.

I'm sure they gave the client a discount to reflect that. 2,083% does seem a little low. I started out in a consultancy that did the same sort of things. There's only so many times you can bill more than your annual salary every month and be told there's no money for raises (or in one memorable case, a laptop).

Agree, the author has confused us and not disclosed his complete background.

http://www.jonathanrauch.com/jrauch_articles/height_discrimi...

I had no lower education than my peers, equal or better skills, and did work of the highest quality.

== did you read the whole piece? granted it's easy to perhaps skip the "no" in "no lower" education.

He was 20, so he might still have not finished out his growth.

/speculation

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