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Comment by ryan_f | Hacker News Reader

I totally agree with you about code not always (or never) being perfect in the real world.

You are also correct in it was disrespectful and wouldn't happen if they were face to face.

BUT I do think an apology is enough, regardless of being called out on the internet. An asshole behind a keyboard doesn't use the same keyboard to say how they were wrong.

People make mistakes and when you do it on the internet it quickly amplifies.

You may say I am a little bias because I have met Corey in person. He was boarding a plane and I ran up and introduced myself after having heard one of his talks. He took his time while others boarded and was very courteous and friendly. So I trust in his apology and that he isn't an asshole in person or behind a keyboard.

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Well, you are probably right. I don't know him, which means that I am operating with imperfect data. I still contend that a little more than an apology on a blog is in order. Perhaps a phone call or an in-person meeting if practical. If I am reading this correctly the comments affected Heather to the point that she had to cry. Not cool.

I've contacted her privately, as well. I thought it was important to publicly apologize, since I publicly said the mean thing.

You are a gentleman. That was exactly the right thing to do. I'm sure you made her day. Wonderful.

So robomartin is happy? Good. The important thing here is that robomartin is satisfied that this incident has played out according to his guidelines on how such matters should be resolved.

I don't think your post is sincere enough, you should reach out to him personally. You come off as a bit too pleased as well, tone a down a notch.

You are actually wrong about that. People tell each other how disgusting code that they wrote is in person all the time.

Public versus private though. If my adviser came in with a printout of something I wrote and told me, "This is garbage and unworthy of the electrons used to send it to me," I would be OK with that -- but if he stood up at a conference, put it on a projector, and said, "My student wrote this worthless crap" I would be (rightly) angry about it. Insulting someone's work to their face in a private setting is not nearly as bad as publicly demeaning their work.

It least it takes a pair to look someone in the eyes and tell them they suck.

I think you're making the mistake a lot of people seem to make on HN, and in my experience is typical for programmers in general.

Telling someone their code sucks does not equal telling them they suck.

You are not your code.

One, I still think telling someone that something they have done sucks is harder to do in person than online. But two, the point is that the incident in question was pretty much "you suck because your code sucks."

>You are not your code.

The code is the code. Not the person.

Telling someone their hard work and best efforts suck DOES hurt their feelings. If you don't recognize that and go around telling people their work sucks, then you might be an asshole.

>>>Telling someone their hard work and best efforts suck DOES hurt their feelings.

And so what? You think books don't get bad reviews? Movies? TV shows? School tests? It's part of life. Take the hit, move on. Do better if you must.

EDIT to add: When it comes to one-on-one being told your work sucks, the best response I think is this: "OK, if it sucks, tell me how, because I'm not yet able to see it and I'd rather not suck." That's better than just stewing in hurt feelings and never improving or knowing how to improve.

There's this little dog that lives next door to me who is always ready to bark at any one (dog or person) that passes, even if they're far bigger than he is.

Wow, that little guy has such a pair he can hardly walk!

Of course, if he weren't so aggressive, I'd be able to bring him along for long walks with us, scritch him behind the ears when we pass by, etc..

Our other neighbors have two dogs I take running with me now and then; not him, though.

My own dog, interestingly enough, doesn't back down when he runs at her (as a lot of dogs do, actually, even bigger ones). She doesn't attack him back, either -- she just doesn't even take him seriously (though he's trying...), and she feints and jumps, ducks and tries to play -- and he generally runs off after a pass or two of this; he realizes she's not backing down, and he gives up.

So she handles the confrontation that's needed with good humor and aplomb, without running away or even dropping to his level and getting nasty.

She hasn't got a pair, of course, but I can really respect how she handles him.

>An asshole behind a keyboard doesn't use the same keyboard to say how they were wrong.

If the apology comes before the resulting firestorm, sure.

Fact is, getting caught is a amazingly effectively catalyst for remorse.

With Corey, it would happen face to face. I've witnessed it.

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