Wow. Just, wow.
Double the average is not enough? (36k in NY urban area) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_urban_areas_in_t...
Double the average is not enough? (36k in NY urban area) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_urban_areas_in_t...
Edit: I should note, this is the primary reason I left NYC about 6 months ago. I'm paying all of $1400/mo for a large house in CT now, and working from home. Much as I love it, living in NYC is just too crazy.
Also, you can very easily live in Brooklyn or Queens for under 1.7k a month with a far larger place and only have a 15-20 minute commute.
It is very possible to live comfortably in NYC but why people choose to live squished up in Manhattan is beyond me.
Hoboken and almost all of Jersey City are under 30 minutes from many Manhattan offices by the Path subway or bus or even ferry. Rent goes very roughly 25% cheaper than Manhattan for similar digs, everything from basement studios to ultramodern luxury towers. There's plenty of supermarkets and any other businesses you need. And access to the rest of the world via car or airport (Newark) is considerably easier from NJ. Bonus: NJ sales tax is less, and you dodge the NYC income and commuter taxes.
I've lived on the NJ Gold Coast and commuted to Manhattan for basically my entire professional life, and pretty satisfied with it. My 15 minute ferry ride is just long enough to decompress and relax without getting bored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_(New_Jersey)
Whatever smelly downtrodden ghettoey reputation New Jersey once had is not at all universally true. Hoboken and downtown Jersey City are first-class modern neighborhoods. There's worse areas up into JC Heights and down to Bayonne, but by and large the region served by the Path is the equal of anything in Brooklyn/Queens.
Your best friend is the local realtor. Talk to her over a starbucks latte & she will tell you how the locals hack real estate.
Yes, the rents in the city are high. But long commutes are one of the main things correlated with unhappiness.
I'd rather live in a smaller place, or with roommates, than quadruple my commute time.
Apparently, irresponsible spending is only when others spend on things I don't value.
Unless you're talking Oakland/Concord or the hwy 4 corridor, I call shenanigans.
Three listed today.
I am sure there are issues with most of those. But still.
Here's the link at a $1500 limit: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa?srchType=A&zoomTo...
8 results. Total. All are apartments (one is a duet, a couple aren't actually in P-town but are apartments nonetheless).
(edit: I'm not trying to dick with you here. I've just been searching for valley housing for a long time and have a good idea where certain cities land price-wise.)
Of course renting houses is more expensive than apartments.
I am sure you will find something that makes you happy. I have had a few house search adventures in the Bay Area. Best of luck to you!
I agree with you on the commute though. I'm paying almost $1,800 for a one bedroom in Silicon Valley just to be able to ride my bicycle to work.
[1] http://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-tools...
On $550 a month after taxes and rent you'd not just have to pay for food (which can easily hit a few hundred a month if you aren't eating catfood), there is also:
- utilities
- clothing (employers appreciate this)
- transportation (the NYC subway is now $2.25 (going to $2.50?) a ride, or a monthly unlimited is currently $104, so there's 1/5th of that 550)
- phone bill (likely a very low end cellphone with limited use)
- laundry (coin op machines can run up $20-$30 a month), if you have dry clean clothes then this is quite a bit more
- medical ? does that $36K have health insurance as well? On a low-end insurance policy, the copay for a PCP visit is about $50, and if there's any kind of meds you need to take that can easily cost $50-100 a month.
- renters insurance ? in case your apt. burns down, it's a good idea
- any kind of occasional expenses that go over what's left, probably go on the credit card. So it's very likely there's 18-20% interest payments on a few thousand dollars going on at any given time as well.
$550 a month after rent is really not workable for an active, functioning adult.
March through February of last year my wife and I were living with another couple (who we met via craigslist, both couples hoping to save money) in a three bedroom apartment in Somerville MA. Food was communal, and we took turns cooking. All numbers I'm giving are per person per month.
utilities+food+household goods: $110. This included heat, hot water, internet, electricity. AC only in one room, and only on a few very hot days. By cooking our own food and not eating out we saved a lot of money.
clothing+other optionals: $150. My wife and I each give ourselves an 'allowance' for discretionary spending. Clothing, eating out, cell phones, entertainment. Clothing we mostly buy at the local thrift store. They have good clothing quite cheap. I'd go down once a month or so to look through things for an hour maybe. My phone now is $30/month and has unlimited texts and data (via t-mobile) but at the time I didn't have a phone (preferred to spend the money on other things).
transportation: $60. Unlimited public transit pass. (This is now $70.)
laundry: We did our laundry with a hand-crank machine at the apartment. Not worth it; too much work. When we used to use a coin-op washer that was about $20/month for two people ($2/load, 2 loads a week) so $10. We would hang clothes to dry, which also makes them last longer.
renters insurance: not worth it. Better to have savings. If our apartment had burned down we wouldn't have lost much of replacement value anyway.
credit card: if we couldn't afford it we didn't get it. Credit cards are a trap.
medical: paid for by my work. If we were buying it on our own that would cost about $150.
This comes to $480 (counting the health insurance costs and laundry).
(We're still spending a similar amount, somewhat less now, but I don't have the data as well organized.)
Why are we living so frugally? So we have more money to donate to effective charities.
where on earth would you get health insurance for $150, and you have no copays of any kind for doctors or medication? or you're fortunate enough to have no medical issues ?
Also I'm kind of talking about NYC here still.
Millions of people survive on less than $550 per month. Sure, you won't have your daily Starbucks, no cable TV, and your cell phone plan will most likely come from a low cost provider like Virgin Mobile. In a $36k job, you can probably get away with clothes from Kohl's or even the thrift store, and your apartment is probably not filled with expensive stuff so renter's insurance isn't that much of an issue.
Jeez! Where do you shop? My entire family's clothes comes from Target and Tractor Supply. Kohl's would probably be an upgrade.
edit: some googling reveals 85 cents a pound is the cheapest and most are 90c-$1: http://centzy.com/nyc/laundry-10024 so about $20-$30 for your size of load, guess our loads are bigger.
Spending 1700 a month for a 180 sq ft studio seems beyond idiotic to me. 1700 is enough to cover the mortgage on a 380k house. 380k on a house = incredible mansion in 98% of America. In Nashville where I currently live (nice city btw) it gets you between 3500-5000 sq ft. In small town America it's even nicer.
Especially with the remote and work from home options these days it seems absurd to pay so much for so little. (I understand not everyone can work from home, but you don't have to live in Manhattan)
There are lots of things available in NY outside of Manhattan. As for SF, there obviously isn't much in the city (28 foreclosures), but a quick search gives me 233 results inside of 45 minutes, and 940 inside of 60.
> Also, where did you get the $95k+closing costs=$115k cash down to get that $380k mortgage if you're making $75k or less?
1. You don't have to have 20% down to buy a house (maybe you should, but it definitely isn't a requirement.
2. I wasn't even considering downpayment, the houses I was talking about were < 380k total, so mortgage would actually be even less factoring in any downpayment.
3. That's the point. If you are making 75k you shouldn't be spending 1700 a month on rent either. If you want to live in Manhattan, get yourself an awesome job paying 250k+. Otherwise it's to me it seems pretty stupid to live in Manhattan. 1700 a month for 180 sq ft just seems bizarre and absurd. That's not a good deal.
Criteria: SFH, <=$375k, 2br+ 1ba+.
SF: 3 listings: http://www.redfin.com/homes-for-sale#!market=sanfrancisco...
Believe me dude, there's nothing unless you want to live in San Leandro (hint: you don't) or don't care about the condition of the house.
> You don't have to have 20% down to buy a house (maybe you should, but it definitely isn't a requirement.
Granted, but then your monthly payment raises several hundred $$ because of PMI. Your original point was based on monthly payment, so this is a problem.
> 3. That's the point. If you are making 75k you shouldn't be spending 1700 a month on rent either....
No argument from me.
Granted they are pretty much all foreclosures, so you'll likely have to work to find one in good shape, but there are 1201 results. And this is obviously not downtown, up to an hour commute, but still. I think I'd rather have a large portion of these than a 180 sq ft studio. Oh well, to each his own.
http://www.trulia.com/for_sale/San_Francisco,CA/2p_beds/1p_b...
One can buy a 3 bedroom home in Kansas City for <180k. But you will have to sell it for the same price you bought it for if you put it on the market.
Here on hackernews 70k a year is almost working class. But I know families of 6 that live on 35k a year. So to read over 70k is not a lot of money to someone stuns me.