Hacker News Reader

Comment by kjackson2012 | Hacker News Reader

kjackson2012

You don't know much about Vancouver if you think this is a realistic possibility.

Vancouver, BC has barely any tech industry (a few software companies like Business Objects, and EA Sports are up there, but nothing meaningful), and the taxes are high. British Columbia has one of the highest tax rate in Canada. One of my Canadian friends told me that the 50% marginal tax rate started around $65k, although I haven't double-checked this for accuracy.

You can't compete between Washington State, with no state income tax, and Vancouver, BC.

View on HN

I live in Vancouver. Have you ever actually lived in Canada?

>Vancouver, BC has barely any tech industry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Vancouver

Let's just ignore the fact that MS has a development centre in Vancouver, specifically because its easier to hire game developers here. Halo is being written here.

> British Columbia has one of the highest tax rate in Canada.

You may want to tell that to BC: http://www.bcjobsplan.ca/?facts=b-c-lowest-personal-taxes

>One of my Canadian friends told me that the 50% marginal tax rate started around $65k, although I haven't double-checked this for accuracy.

Your friend is either an idiot, or hasn't lived here in a long, long time.

http://www.knv.com/cms-assets/documents/40364-256654.bcperso...

>You can't compete between Washington State, with no state income tax, and Vancouver, BC

How's your health care? How much does that cost your employer?

There are many great things about WA. I love it. However if the state is going to retroactively go after companies, BC starts to become very, very attractive. We are not that different, tax wise. We obviously need to stay competitive.

> How's your health care? How much does that cost your employer?

This point is significant in and of itself. It's no coincidence that health insurance is a central point in just about every major recent union dispute.

Health insurance is wildly expensive, and the cost to private corporations is not to be underestimated. Anyone who's ever had to provide health insurance to employees is acutely familiar with these costs.

My friend worked for EA Sports, so I trusted the information he provided, but I guess he was wrong. The marginal tax rates are 43% at 135k.

Yes, Vancouver has some tech companies, but I wouldn't call it anything like a tech hub like Ottawa or Toronto. Also, UBC and SFU do not have a strong tech program. I'm sure it's average compared to most cities, but you won't find the same amounts of tech people in Vancouver like you will in Seattle or Silicon Valley. In fact, I'd bet that most above average developers in Vancouver would move to a more tech-oriented city.

He also mentioned that the cost of housing in Vancouver is twice the amount of Seattle. Not sure how accurate that is either.

> Let's just ignore the fact that MS has a development centre in Vancouver

Wow, MS centre! It will save us all. And they don't have MS centers anywhere else, right? Vancouver here.

* All of Canada has as many my profile job openings as Seattle.

* Salaries are lower here than there.

* Taxes are higher here than there.

* Prices are higher here than there.

* Selection of everything is miserable here.

* It's impossible to have a career if you can't talk hockey for 2 hours. Nobody gives a f$%k about your abilities - you must be "one of us".

> How's your health care?

Pathetic, thank you. I just waited 4 months for an ultrasound. They said everything was OK - but why then would I have insisted on it in the first place?

> BC starts to become very, very attractive

Do you have a house for sale? Because it sure sounds like it. BC does not start to become very, very attractive to anyone ambitious and able - and these guys will go to US for the same reason that all ambitious and able Canadians move to US.

There are M.D. taxi drivers and Ph.D. WalMart cashiers here - because their names are Davinder and Reza rather than Sean and Tim.

No doubt, BC is a great place for natural resources barons, drug traffickers, porn and gambling shops, and bribe-happy Party officials from China. It's extremely neophobic, hypocritical and hostile to changes.

YMMV

You're right. What am I talking about? Vancouver is a shit hole. It's clear that nobody wants to live here.

I mean just look at where it ranks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_most_livable_cities

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertypicturegalleries...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-world%E2%80%99s-best-place...

It's too bad such an informative post had to be accompanied with so much condescension. You easily could have made your point without name calling.

"Halo is being written here"

Some of Microsoft's game studios may be based there, but I believe this is not necessarily true for Halo. 343 Industries is based in Kirkland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/343_Industries

Sorry, I understood it wrong. It's being referred to as "the next Halo", which is kinda silly.

Ah neat!

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/12/02/microsoft-vancouver-is-now...

High taxes aren't an issue, since healthcare is free and there is a very strong social safety net.

Also, taxes aren't high.

It's all relative, no?

Long ago, when I moved to the US from Canada, I figure out what I'd owe in tax in Canada vs. what I was paying in the US.

Keep in mind that I owed a home (mortgage interest deduction) and maxed out my 401k (which isn't a % of income like Canada).

I was only making $50K/yr, but I was taking home an extra $5K by living in the US and not Canada. 10% more income is pretty good, no?

Depends how long ago you were here, but we've been seeing tax rates fall pretty consistently for a decade.

Add it all depends on what state/provinces you're comparing. I would fathom to guess that the lowest in Canada vs. the highest in the US isn't all that different, especially if you don't take advantage of country specific deductions.

Well, for example, Albertans pay less tax (federal and provincial combined) than Californians, but more than Washingtonians (who pay no tax, but also have to pay for their own healthcare). Keep in mind, raw salaries tend to be higher in Canada, as is cost of living. It'd be pretty complicated to actually sit down and puzzle out real take-home wages as compared to PPP, but I doubt there'd be a massive difference.

According to this, it's pretty comparable to the US if you live in California. Higher than the US if you live in Washington under their current tax laws.

http://2vancouver.com/en/articles/vancouver-bc-taxes-on-inco...

The corporate tax rate is actually lower than it is in the US though.

How much does Microsoft actually pay in corporate taxes to the US?

[0] https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=microsoft+tax+avoidanc...

"50% marginal tax rate started around $65k"

I think your friend has very poor math skills.

http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-Calculators-2012-Pe...

$65K gross income in BC nets nearly $52K; a ~20% average tax rate. This is before any eligible deductions.

Even if your friend was making $1,000,000 gross salary, they'd still pay less than 42% tax on average, and that's ignoring several legal tax shelters available to all Canadians.

Note, he said "marginal" not "overall" tax rate.

Don't forget that BC has 12% sales tax and monthly premiums for health insurance.

Income tax is only one of the many taxes.

BC has (or rather will return to) a variable sales tax that floats around 7% normally. There is also a 5% GST everywhere in Canada. (Like a VAT)

Correct on MSP (Medical Services Plan). Personally, I'd love to abolish this and roll it into general revenues. It's a nightmare.

ok, the highest marginal tax rate for a $65K gross salary is ~30%. Everyone gets the first ~10K tax-free, then it's ~20% (in BC) off the next ~$40K, then ~30% off the next ~$40K. Only the last ~$15K gets taxed at 30%, and you can easily reduce that to zero with available legal tax-shelters/deductions/credits.

BC health premiums are $65/month for a single person. Sales tax is a consumption tax and not really relevant.

Sales tax is not a 'marginal' tax, and is certainly not unique to BC.

No, it's not a marginal tax, I was just referring to the fact that total tax burden has to include more than just income tax.

What are property taxes like? Vancouver real estate is absurdly expensive compared to even SFBA from what I remember (although I was looking at London Properties), so the rate is on a really high base, too.

I'd be interested in an objective comparison of SF, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver from the perspective of a startup and ~10-20 developers making O($100k/yr) each. Maybe throw in Las Vegas or Austin, for the lowest possible US case, and someplace like Calgary for the cheapest Canadian case.

Superior Canadian immigration rules would seem to dominate if taxes are even within 50% of each other in some cases (founders or substantial early employees not being willing or able to work in the US), and would also dominate in cases like "gaming", anything privacy/anonymity based where US law was an issue, etc. I'm not sure how Canadian investment rules work (I know there's the weird R&D tax credit, and there were issues until recently with taxing or reporting gains).

Renting is the only sane choice in Vancouver right now as most Van RE is extremely overvalued. Median household income in Vancouver is ~$67K, which indicates RE prices are definitely out of whack. Calgary would not be my choice for "cheapest case", I'd place Windsor Ontario (EST) in that slot, although I wouldn't want to live there :P. For a low-cost large city Ottawa Ontario (EST) is quite attractive.

Corporate taxes are lower in Canada, but there are other mandatory payroll costs like CPP (9.9% of the first eligible $50k earned split 50/50 between employer/employee) and EI (employer pays 1.4x whatever the employee pays at 1.88% of the first eligible $50K earned).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com