The US is quickly going to learn that there is a rather modern country to the north that isn't in the same financial distress as Europe or most states are.
I'd imagine given that, this line of thinking would probably play itself out pdq.
Vancouver, BC has barely any tech industry (a few software companies like Business Objects, and EA Sports are up there, but nothing meaningful), and the taxes are high. British Columbia has one of the highest tax rate in Canada. One of my Canadian friends told me that the 50% marginal tax rate started around $65k, although I haven't double-checked this for accuracy.
You can't compete between Washington State, with no state income tax, and Vancouver, BC.
http://2vancouver.com/en/articles/vancouver-bc-taxes-on-inco...
Long ago, when I moved to the US from Canada, I figure out what I'd owe in tax in Canada vs. what I was paying in the US.
Keep in mind that I owed a home (mortgage interest deduction) and maxed out my 401k (which isn't a % of income like Canada).
I was only making $50K/yr, but I was taking home an extra $5K by living in the US and not Canada. 10% more income is pretty good, no?
>Vancouver, BC has barely any tech industry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Vancouver
Let's just ignore the fact that MS has a development centre in Vancouver, specifically because its easier to hire game developers here. Halo is being written here.
> British Columbia has one of the highest tax rate in Canada.
You may want to tell that to BC: http://www.bcjobsplan.ca/?facts=b-c-lowest-personal-taxes
>One of my Canadian friends told me that the 50% marginal tax rate started around $65k, although I haven't double-checked this for accuracy.
Your friend is either an idiot, or hasn't lived here in a long, long time.
http://www.knv.com/cms-assets/documents/40364-256654.bcperso...
>You can't compete between Washington State, with no state income tax, and Vancouver, BC
How's your health care? How much does that cost your employer?
There are many great things about WA. I love it. However if the state is going to retroactively go after companies, BC starts to become very, very attractive. We are not that different, tax wise. We obviously need to stay competitive.
This point is significant in and of itself. It's no coincidence that health insurance is a central point in just about every major recent union dispute.
Health insurance is wildly expensive, and the cost to private corporations is not to be underestimated. Anyone who's ever had to provide health insurance to employees is acutely familiar with these costs.
Yes, Vancouver has some tech companies, but I wouldn't call it anything like a tech hub like Ottawa or Toronto. Also, UBC and SFU do not have a strong tech program. I'm sure it's average compared to most cities, but you won't find the same amounts of tech people in Vancouver like you will in Seattle or Silicon Valley. In fact, I'd bet that most above average developers in Vancouver would move to a more tech-oriented city.
He also mentioned that the cost of housing in Vancouver is twice the amount of Seattle. Not sure how accurate that is either.
Wow, MS centre! It will save us all. And they don't have MS centers anywhere else, right? Vancouver here.
* All of Canada has as many my profile job openings as Seattle.
* Salaries are lower here than there.
* Taxes are higher here than there.
* Prices are higher here than there.
* Selection of everything is miserable here.
* It's impossible to have a career if you can't talk hockey for 2 hours. Nobody gives a f$%k about your abilities - you must be "one of us".
> How's your health care?
Pathetic, thank you. I just waited 4 months for an ultrasound. They said everything was OK - but why then would I have insisted on it in the first place?
> BC starts to become very, very attractive
Do you have a house for sale? Because it sure sounds like it. BC does not start to become very, very attractive to anyone ambitious and able - and these guys will go to US for the same reason that all ambitious and able Canadians move to US.
There are M.D. taxi drivers and Ph.D. WalMart cashiers here - because their names are Davinder and Reza rather than Sean and Tim.
No doubt, BC is a great place for natural resources barons, drug traffickers, porn and gambling shops, and bribe-happy Party officials from China. It's extremely neophobic, hypocritical and hostile to changes.
YMMV
I mean just look at where it ranks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_most_livable_cities
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertypicturegalleries...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-world%E2%80%99s-best-place...
Some of Microsoft's game studios may be based there, but I believe this is not necessarily true for Halo. 343 Industries is based in Kirkland.
[0] https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=microsoft+tax+avoidanc...
I think your friend has very poor math skills.
http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-Calculators-2012-Pe...
$65K gross income in BC nets nearly $52K; a ~20% average tax rate. This is before any eligible deductions.
Even if your friend was making $1,000,000 gross salary, they'd still pay less than 42% tax on average, and that's ignoring several legal tax shelters available to all Canadians.
Don't forget that BC has 12% sales tax and monthly premiums for health insurance.
Income tax is only one of the many taxes.
Correct on MSP (Medical Services Plan). Personally, I'd love to abolish this and roll it into general revenues. It's a nightmare.
BC health premiums are $65/month for a single person. Sales tax is a consumption tax and not really relevant.
I'd be interested in an objective comparison of SF, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver from the perspective of a startup and ~10-20 developers making O($100k/yr) each. Maybe throw in Las Vegas or Austin, for the lowest possible US case, and someplace like Calgary for the cheapest Canadian case.
Superior Canadian immigration rules would seem to dominate if taxes are even within 50% of each other in some cases (founders or substantial early employees not being willing or able to work in the US), and would also dominate in cases like "gaming", anything privacy/anonymity based where US law was an issue, etc. I'm not sure how Canadian investment rules work (I know there's the weird R&D tax credit, and there were issues until recently with taxing or reporting gains).
Corporate taxes are lower in Canada, but there are other mandatory payroll costs like CPP (9.9% of the first eligible $50k earned split 50/50 between employer/employee) and EI (employer pays 1.4x whatever the employee pays at 1.88% of the first eligible $50K earned).
We have however shown a remarkable ability to vote for people that tell us we can't afford things we can't afford. We took drastic austerity measures in the 90's and we actually voted for it - twice.
I'm not too worried about our finances, once people get the numbers in front of them, they tend to be convinced.
The reason why Vancouver is so bad for housing is because wealthy foreign investors see Vancouver as a stable store of value for their money. It's a complicated bank account for large sums of money.
Alberta is the money making place to be in Canada, since the resource industry & banking drives over %50 of the TSX. Rent is also a lot better in Alberta. But Canada is not a country right now to be a techie compared to the USA. It's a great place to be in the oil industry although.
The reason I suggested Vancouver is because of it's proximity. It's pretty much the same place.
But no, the Canadian healthcare system is not going to pull you under.