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Comment by Gigioingiro | Hacker News Reader

US keep pursuing this political agenda that goes against the whole foundation of the country rise as world superpower. I wonder how long it needs to last before Europe starts to roll serious academic policy that attracts the orphaned talent refused by US. The Netherlands started well with the Tulip Fund but a systematic effort is needed. Korea is expanding his VISA grants for AI or tech top talents. Its the first time in decades where top world talent does not point altogether towards US and will be interesting to see which policy from other countries will reveal to be more effective. It's a tight window to take advantage of before the change in US administration so an economical effort in a short time period is required.

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I don't think this would negatively affect the crème de la crème, they would even have a high demand in US companies especially in STEM fields with higher salaries after finishing the studies.

US is popular for higher studies for students all around the world not only because of the opportunities, but also English being the language for studies. I'm not sure how it works in EU countries. Does Netherland or South Korea offers degree programs completely in English?

> Netherland

Yeah, all higher studies and institutions are in English and you can get around in public with just English. Most expats will rarely hear or need Dutch (The language of The Netherlands).

> Most expats will rarely hear or need Dutch

That is an overstatement. Dutch is the primary language everywhere like the native language of any country. It is true that in major cities most people speak excellent English and you can definitely manage easily without speaking Dutch.

But Dutch is spoken absolutely everywhere and most signage is only in Dutch. Also, as soon as you get a bit outside of the big cities, you find many people with a middling level of English, similar to most other countries in Europe. Even in cities, many working class people and actually most immigrants from non English speaking countries only speak Dutch.

How about the language usage at workplace after graduation? Would one have to learn Dutch or still continue everything with English?

Also is it easy to get a job after graduation in Netherlands in STEM field? As an example if someone graduated in medicine (doctor, nurse, etc.) then wouldn’t proficiency in Dutch be mandatory to work?

It's probably not that big of a problem in the absolute top companies but once you go anywhere else they'll prefer Dutch natives and you'll face hurdles trying to get promotions. This is a big reason why expats end up leaving the country. It also causes resentment from both sides in daily life.

That’s what I thought as well. Also, in US one could start work in New York after graduation and if a better job offer comes they can move around the country in different states where as in EU, you graduate and start working in Netherland and assume one learns Dutch, then they are restricted to Netherland in terms of language if they get a job offer in another EU country like Italy or Germany or France, then they would have to learn that languages as well I guess

Yeah it's not great, I don't think it's hopeless everywhere but if you got the ability to work in the UK it prevents most these problems. English language really benefits some countries.

Most Dutch will only speak English to non-Dutch. Which is really annoying if you’re there trying to learn Dutch

Same in Sweden, welcome!

Every top university worldwide open to international talent offers the programs in English, from South Korea to Europe, Singapore etc. The challenge would have to keep the talents in country after the university, and language barrier, especially in South Korea plays a role. But US administration is making also harder for companies to hire international talents, and many of those have in any case offices in Europe to avoid the issue. In any case the silicon valley and industrial/tech hubs have historically born around university excellence campus, which is what the US policy is currently degrading. In Europe, beside the UK, there are at least Zurich ETH and TU Delft that have the potential to growth enormously by taking advantage of that.

US rise as a world superpower was luck as opposed to something deliberate, just like most rises are.

Luck? They killed 95% of the existing inhabitants, used a huge agricultural, mining, and forestry base to spread productivity, built national infrastructure with enslaved and indentured labor. They stayed out of two crippling wars as long as they possibly could, and ultimately were the only major power that was able to mostly avoid damage from the war.

After which they invited the best scientists from the axis to come build things for them. They then used their position to topple governments around the world for their companies, annex territory (see: Hawaii), and press their interests globally.

What about these steps is luck? Evil, sure, but luck?

2 World Wars broke out that had impacts on us, it left a ton of our peers completely devastated and we were not. UK did not end food rationing until 1954. By that time, US was building suburbs out, sending a ton of GI to higher education and Marshall plan had our completely functioning factories turning out goods by metric tons an hour.

Luck means things just happened to work out not that they didn’t take steps. Luck means the same thing somewhere else wouldn’t work. That’s the way I’m using it.

You missed reserved currency advantage

It's not luck it's starting conditions. People have written books about the benefits of geography and natural resources.

So can you please explain me the rise of Switzerland, Singapore and South Korea? No natural resources, no energy independency, small countries surrounded by enemies. And why Russia that has all the natural resources of the world is such a failed state? Starting conditions are something that was valid around 2000 years ago in the civilization and empires rise and fall. Not actual anymore.

I'm not a believer in geographic destiny but the fact that Russia is still relatively rich (compared to e.g. CAR or Uganda) shows that natural resources are quite handy. Switzerland does have quite some hydro energy (potential) and because of its resource poverty many Swiss had to leave the country during the 19th century (and these swiss actually created wealth in many of these places). There's millions of americans with swiss ancestry.

starting conditions is pretty much the definition of luck.

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