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Personally, I have never had a negative experience with a Zipcar. I had an Audi A3 breakdown in SF on the way to Startup School, I told them I had an appointment. They instantly called me a cab, booked me a new Audi A3 in the FiDi and refunded my entire reservation + $75 in driving credit. Also, since I was under 21 at the time, they had to change the reservation to my passengers account since I couldn't rent cars outside UC. He also was not charged for the reservation and got $25 in credit.

The cars are always clean and I have never had a low fuel situation. Now, I rent cars in the Downtown Oakland area so I can't say the same for SF but thats just me. Oakland/Berkeley does have the weekend availability problem but if I know I am going somewhere on the weekend I can book as late as Friday night and still get a car I want.

The cost. I pay as low as $7 an hour for a Mazda 3, $9 an hour for an Audi A3, Mini, VW Golf. I have a small discount via FoundersCard however. Still though, those prices are pretty great to rent a car, especially since Zipcar covers gas, maintenance and insurance.

Insurance. If you do not have a waiver, you pay the first $750 of an accident, Zipcar pays the rest. If you have a waiver ($10 a month), you do not pay anything. Also, it counts as real car insurance so when you do buy a car and need auto insurance, you can say you have had continuing coverage. http://www.zipcar.com/how/faqs/what-damage-fee

If you think you might buy a car in the next few years and are currently without, having a ZipCar membership, even if you never use it, could easily pay for itself with this benefit.

I couldn't agree more. I got a year's membership for free, tried it once, never again.

For most times you want to use it (weekend), everyone else does too, so there's never a way to "spontaneously" use a ZipCar instead of something else (you have to reserve days in advance), and it's way more expensive than you'd been led to believe.

But secondly, I discovered hourly-based rentals just don't work. I was the idiot who returned my 4-hour rental an hour late, simply because of factors outside of my control (insanely long lines where I was, too much traffic coming back, but since I don't usually drive or go there, how was I supposed to know?). I felt horrible for the next customer who didn't have a car, had to pay a fine, and realized that life and traffic are just too unpredictable for reserved hourly rentals to make any sense at all.

If ZipCar had a huge fleet where everyone who wanted one in Manhattan on the weekend could get one, that would be great... but then it would be sitting unused during the week, and be way too expensive.

So, just to be clear, you literally drove a Zipcar ONE TIME, you screwed up and didn't leave yourself enough time on the rental (yes, you'll have to book with the understanding that things are very likely to take longer than you think -- and yes, you will often pay for time you're not actually in the car at the end of your reservation)...and then you never did it again?

The system is designed specifically to disincentivize people from doing what you did -- to book without really having a good sense of how long something is going to take. This is to prevent people from screwing over the next person, which as you said, you felt bad about. And you should -- you fucked them.

The system is what it is, and is designed for a certain kind of use. If you're going to take a trip during a relatively in-demand time (meaning, not the middle of the night) that's going to take 3.5 hours +/- 1.5 hours, you either book for 5 hours or you probably shouldn't use Zipcar. You can risk it to try to be efficient, but then you might pay a big ole fine and screw over someone else.

If you need to be able to take highly variable length trips and not commit to a given rental length, then maybe you should buy a car. Don't blame Zipcar when you're trying its very structured system in a willy-nilly manner.

You literally had a worse experience on your first drive than I've had on any of my probably 100+, and you're condemning the entire service -- nay, the entire business model -- based on one experience. One. Surely you can see how this seems like madness.

If ZipCar had a huge fleet where everyone who wanted one in Manhattan on the weekend could get one, that would be great... but then it would be sitting unused during the week, and be way too expensive.

This is the fundamental reason private ownership of vehicles is the mode, IMO. Everybody tends to use them at the same time.

Hmm,

One would one thing a constantly rental price could be used to balance these demand fluctuations. ZipCar could raise prices as the weekend approached just enough so a few cars would be left on the weekend for those willing to pay a serious premium.

The limit might be that most users would be very annoyed at the resulting uncertainty in how much they would pay for a car. A caveat to the efficient market hypothesis.

Right, but you can't raise them too high or else people go and buy their own damn car, thank you very much.

You definitely have to pad the hourly rentals at times, but they do work. It always helps if you have a nearby grocery store or something where if you do have some time left over you can run an extra errand.

I absolutely could not disagree with you more.

I've been a member for over 5 years. I live in a popular neighborhood in SF. It's to be expected that weekends or special events affect availability. But there are so many lots around its easy to walk an extra block.

I've been in 2 accidents in their cars. First time was pretty bad, 2nd one was minor. Each time the most I had to pay was a $500 deductible. That sucked, but was nothing compared to how much I had to pay for an accident many years ago in my own car. (This all makes me sound like a terrifyingly bad driver, but I'm not!)

Just in the last 2 days I used Zipcar. I was heading to Stinson Beach for New Years. To rent the car overnight was $101. It was 2 blocks away.

I called Enterprise downtown and got quoted a car at $28/day. Awesome, I think. Well, no. They closed at 3pm that day. And they're downtown. And although I only needed the car for 1 day, they were closed on Jan 1 and would have cost me $45 to drop the car off when the place is closed. So then I would have bad to worry about parking a car I didn't need. Also, since I refuse to carry a credit card, in order to use my standard bank card (the thing that has all the money I actually have, and not artificial debt like in a CC), they want paper copies of two bills to my house and my last pay stub. Seriously? I don't get paper anything anymore, much less a pay stub.

So in the end, I payed a little more for the Zipcar rental. I got the convenience of it being local, flexible, and less shit for me to worry about. That's why I like Zipcar.

I've had the occasional frustration with them. Dirty car, no gas, broken card. Little infrequent things that are frustrating at the time but are rare. You call and report the previous driver, they get fined and don't so it again. It's happened to me a couple times.

So I refute your claims about Zipcar being so bad. I've used them a lot longer and quite happily too. I'll continue as long as they don't become like other rental car companies.

Hear, hear! Plus Zipcar's rates included gas and insurance (they also quote all taxes and fees in their 'estimated rate').

Thing is, though, under normal situations, that scenario with Enterprise could have been much better, and ZipCar might not have been so great:

* You live in a popular neighborhood in SF with lots of nearby ZipCar lots. Many people do not have that luxury.

* ZipCar was more flexible for a holiday rental. Fine. Any non-holiday Enterprise rental would not have had that problem.

* The credit card issue: you're in the minority. Most of us are fine with having a credit card and even many of us use it as more of a "charge" card, just as a buffer between the merchant and our bank accounts (not to mention cash back, airline miles, etc.). I'm not trying to say "change your ways"; I'm merely pointing out that this was a special situation for you in particular, and that most people would not have to jump through these hoops to rent a car from Enterprise.

* The last time I rented a car, they had someone come pick me up and take me to the rental location, free of charge. Maybe Enterprise (or the rental location you were looking at) doesn't offer this service, or maybe their policies have changed, but many car rental companies will do this for you. Yes, it's still more convenient to walk a block to a lot to get your car, but a driver picking you up is still pretty damn convenient. Not to mention that you know when you get there that the car will actually be there, and be clean.

So in the end, you're condemning traditional car rental services mainly for things surrounding your special circumstances, which is a bit unfair. On the other hand, it's great that ZipCar is there to cater to your needs! The bottom line is that ZipCar got you where you needed to go, and under terms you found acceptable. Definitely a win.

On an off-ish-topic side note, I do own my own car (and live and work in SF), and despite how often I tell myself I should just get rid of it, stories like this make me very glad I haven't, despite how much money I'd save without it. I hate having to depend on others so deeply for transportation, with no fallback plan should the stars completely misalign.

(Disclaimer: I own a small amount of ZIP stock, which hopefully will be above water again soon.)

Could not agree more. I've driven a Zipcar probably about three times a month for the last three years and they've been great.

One time the garage where the car was supposed to park wouldn't open (I was returning it). I called them, they said, leave it somewhere on the street, call and tell us where it is, and we'll deal with it. It was after midnight. Awesome.

Another time the car wasn't back from another driver. They reserved me one a couple blocks away and extended my reservation by an hour to make up for lost time.

Those are literally the only two instances I can think of to complain about, and their service was prompt and helpful both times. The cars are always very clean, and the community is great about keeping the gas above the required level and getting cars back on time, for the most part.

Yeah, the cars get gobbled up on the weekend. Just like hotel rooms get gobbled up around the holidays. There's a finite number of cars and demand goes up and down. Part of the deal. If you don't like it, pay to own your own car so you can have one nearby at the drop of a hat anytime (and pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars per month for that convenience). It's frankly just unrealistic to expect that Zipcar is going to be able to provide you with car-ownership levels of convenience all the time.

I pay about $60 a month with Zipcar and there's zero hassle 90% of the time. If I owned a car, I'd probably pay twice that in insurance per month, plus gas, plus parking, plus maintenance. But yeah, holy shit, I can't always get a car at the last minute on Saturday. What a shit service.

Have you tried Hertz On Demand? I haven't yet, but it sounds very competitive to Zipcar. There are locations throughout cities, no membership fees, similar pricing, and time reservations.

I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about broken, damaged, or dirty cars other than to have managed stations where you pick them up. Which turns it back into a regular car rental outfit. But you're always getting a freshly washed car, a full tank of gas, and at least a cursory check by staff.

I have used it in SF a couple times, and it's been a poor experience every time. They only have one location. The cars are not very well cared-for. I've never been able to get out of the parking garage without a hassle. The fuel card was missing once. I just have the strong impression that Hertz is not serious about this program.

At least it's cheaper than ZipCar though, which is why I occasionally go back to try again.

If you are in SFBay, check out City CarShare. Cheaper than Zipcar for short trips, and quite a lot of vehicles. I belong to both and find myself using CCS much more than Zipcar.

Interesting. Where was this? I think it depends where you are. I live in SF and I've never had any of these problems, and I've been using it for about a year. I often reserve a car 15 minutes in advance, even on weekends. The garage next to me has two Minis, and BMW and a Benz.

Also they have a zero-liability waiver for $80/yr.

I've never had problems 1-3 in Seattle. It's possible that Zipcar Toronto is particularly poor. That would be disappointing, but it does seem to vary by city.

Not sure what you're talking about with 4--when you go to reserve a car it shows the hourly and daily rates right there. The rates for Zipcar are higher than, say, Enterprise, but they do include fuel and insurance, and you don't have to go through all the paperwork every time you need to rent a car. The cars themselves are also of higher quality. I find that I save a lot of money using Zipcar instead of owning a car, and that it's far more convenient and readily available than traditional car rentals.

As for 5, you're all wrong: the built-in Zipcar insurance has a $750 deductible--you don't pay anything above that no matter what--and the $750 damage waiver covers the deductible. I never buy it since it's -EV and I can cover $750 in a pinch.

A few years ago in NYC I had problems #1 and #2 (never #3) but in the last few years, in my neighborhood, availability & condition of cars has been excellent. That said, I get a lot more utility out of my ancient hand-me-down sedan I now own and the relief from "ZipCar deadline stress" is nice.

TBH, I don't see why the low on gas problem exists. How hard can it be to include a feature that measures fuel levels when picked up and dropped off. Pay drivers above market rate for gas for filling up the tank with more gas than it had when they received it and penalize them when they leave it empty.

Assuming gas is $4 per gallon, a zipcar has a 15 gallon tank and had 10 gallons when picked up, charge the driver $6 per gallon below the 10 gallons it had when it was picked up and pay the driver $5 per gallon for each gallon more than 10 gallons it has.

The only problem I see with this approach is quality of fuel used by the driver. There is no way that I know of to enforce the octane level of the fuel pumped. However this is a problem that will exist either way.

There could also be sensors for other things, such as a smoke detector to make sure that someone isn't smoking in the car. I don't know if it's possible to make a sensor that makes sure a car is kept clean, but as more and more cars are used for car sharing I see the demand for such sensors to rise enough to justify bringing such sensors to market.

The problem you're describing a solution to doesn't exist. Gas included in the rental -- Each car has a fleet card that can be used to fill up at most any gas station.

With ZipCar, the rule is you should never leave a car with less than 1/4 tank of gas, and if you do, you're hit with a $20 fee. I think the GP is upset he had to spend time filling the tank back up.

Solve the fuel quality problem by reimbursing fuel 100% (and usually directly paid by zipcar), but then offering a $1-2/gal bounty for the low fuel situation.

I own a car (and love doing so), but I also have zipcar for a few uses cases. The insurance issues are covered because I have a car and thus car insurance, and because my zipcar is paid with a good credit card.

1) Zipvan. U-Haul is essentially rape. Zipvan is $12/hr for a Ford E-series van (E-250 I think). Perfect for transporting stuff. Also just barely fits in most underground garages (6'6"), but fits, unlike trucks (although U-Haul does rent vans, too). Only needing a van for an hour or two is perfect.

2) Use when on a trip. The thing I hate is renting a car at the airport (say, $20-100/day), then driving it to a hotel, paying $50/day to park, and not using it much (maybe not even until I drive back to the airport). Yet, if you have to go to a colo or something, having a vehicle is essential, and a taxi really sucks.

3) Trying out random cars. I wanted to see how I felt about the A3 and the BMW and the Volvo. etc.

4) When my car is broken, and I need a car at the very last minute, there are a few zipcars near my house. If I'm not picky about the vehicle, I can almost always find something within walking distance; failing that, long walk or taxi. Public transit from Oakland to the Peninsula is defective (3h+ for a trip I can do in a car in 45min). This saved me when my garage door was broken in a way which prevented me from taking my car, which I discovered a few minutes before I needed to leave. The alternative was paying $150 for a taxi (which in the Bay Area isn't even that likely to work), or stealing a car on the street, so Zipcar paid for itself.

My big problems with zipcar are that a lot of the cars are badly maintained or dirty, and I nearly always end up filling them up with gas (and often the stupid card doesn't work, so I pay on my own credit card and get reimbursed), and they don't have any really awesome cars (I'd love an A7/A8 for $25/hr), and the problem with "oh no, what if something goes long and I have to extend".

All good points.

There is a market of course for car sharing. But I think what people are forgetting is that the reason why someone might go with a name brand (McDonalds/Avis/Mariott etc.) is that you get the "system" and some quality controls and hopefully the same product anywhere. This will be much harder to scale with a zipcar type system (or airbnb) because you have much less control over the product or the interaction with the end user. You can't have a maid supervisor make sure the room was clean and all the linens are in place. You can't centralize the cleaning, maintenance and readiness of the vehicle inventory.

> You can buy an extended waiver which covers only 750$ in damage. Again unlike other conventional rental companies which would happily provide you with a full damage waiver.

This part is flat out not true - I believe it varies from fleet to fleet so I won't quote you any numbers, but Zipcar definitely do proper damage waivers. Please contact your local Zipcar office or check online for the actual figures :)

I'm based in Toronto as well and use Zipcar quite regularly. I've never had any of these issues and have nothing but great things to say about Zipcar.

It's hard to get be too sympathetic to this list of gripes?

- you have to put gas in a car. That's hardly much of an inconvenience.

- they are dirty? Its a sharing system, what do you expect? People are slobs mostly, and when there's no incentive to keep something tidy they don't. public transport is no different.

Booking 3 days in advance doesn't seem like such a big deal either.

I don't see the point of zipcar to start with. Just rent a car for the day or use public transport. if you live in an area where those two don't apply, buy a car.

fortunately zipcar has been assimilated into the larger car rental picture now which should improve things.

> I don't see the point of zipcar to start with. Just rent a car for the day or use public transport. if you live in an area where those two don't apply, buy a car.

We can do 95% of stuff with existing public transport (since it is very good in London and the UK). Buying a car to cover the remaining 5% is overkill and would cost way more than to use a Zipcar. The annual upfront costs for maintaining a car (VED, insurance, MOT, parking) are going to be more than our average yearly spend on Zipcar, and this doesn't even take into account the initial car purchase or leasing/depreciation.

24 hour rentals to go see nearby family (not served well by public transport) are probably slightly more expensive with Zipcar than a traditional rental company but way more convenient to walk 200 yards to the Zipcar than miles to the nearest rental car depot; especially with a 3 year old (and a car seat) in tow.

It's very useful to be able to rent a Zipcar for 2 hours for £12 to go take a bunch of stuff to the dump, nip into the supermarket and stock up on heavy/bulky items then go to the local DIY store and get a bunch of stuff that can't be easily carried on public transport. Sure, DIY shops will deliver, for a price. Supermarket delivery can be free but the free delivery slots don't always work out time-wise. People can come and collect the stuff that would go to the dump, but it costs.

So, you may have no need for Zipcar, but it does work for plenty of people.

A modicum of quality is to be expected of any paid service, even if is a sharing system. Also people may be slobs, but not me, it is not my problem nor responsibility to deal with that.

see 'sharing' in the dictionary.

Buses and planes and trains and sidewalks are dirty too.