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weberer

But what are those censorship-resistant alternatives? From the top of my head I can only think of:

- 4chan

- Kiwi Farms

- Maybe modern Twitter? (I don't believe this, but that's the current narrative anyway)

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I think there is an analogy here to loud, dark, dirty, smelly bars with questionable characters moving around setting coolness trends (Or even prison slang influencing mainstream slang). You won't be able to set such trends in some slick, squeaky clean, family friendly matinee.

Similarly, you have to be very off-putting to the mainstream to prevent the gentrification of such a censorship-resistant platform. It's like a costly signal. That's precisely why you feel they are off-putting. It works as intended and keeps out people who'd try to turn it into the way everything else is. Like when rich hip college kids gentrify an area and turn it into a sanitized thing that is the same as everywhere else. The offensiveness is a protective barrier.

Mastodon is at least moderately censorship resistant, in the sense that you can stand up an instance where you can say what you want. There's no particular requirement anyone else will listen to you, of course (objectionable speech tends to cause other servers to defederate from your instance), but that's federation working as intended.

The problem is most people (who may say they want censorship-free social media) do not really want it to be censorship-free. They want it to be censorship-free for the opinions and views they hold, not for those they oppose.

I think X arguably comes closest, and at least it costs bots money to post with a checkmark (unlike Reddit, which is a bot free-for-all - since its very origins actually). Plus, the feed & community notes algorithms are actually open source (whether or not that's also the deployed version, I can only speculate).

If you have a bar and you let Nazi's speak openly of Nazi things, they'll come from miles around and drive away anyone who isn't a Nazi. A bar that permits Nazi's is a Nazi bar. I admit that I don't want censorship-free social media. I want some censorship. Defining where the line is between what is allowed and what isn't can be tricky, but it's a struggle worth engaging with.

At present, U.S. social media tends to create echo chambers where moderators have absolute power to push whatever agenda they want. That's too much censorship power in the hands of people who are completely anonymous. I'd like to dial it back a bit, at least to the point where reasonable people of different political persuasions can live in a shared reality (without Nazi's). We need to stop treating political affiliations like Abrahamic religions.

X's censors are, at least, following the wishes of someone who is anything but anonymous. Don't pretend there isn't a slant there though.

If people are not allowed to speak openly about their Nazi opinions, they will simply do it silently between each other, creating an echo chamber.

Imagine that you're having a nice life until a black family moves in next door and turns whole area into a ghetto. Everyone around you tells you to suck it up and stop being racist. Online platforms ban you for racism. Until one day you stumble upon secret underground community of people in similar situations. Sure, some of their claims might be a little extreme, but at least they're the only ones willing to listen to your problems without telling you to shut the fuck up.

Yes, I agree. Nazi's will go find/make a Nazi bar. I'm not going to hang out in a Nazi bar myself though.

Some people are just too extreme to be happy in a space with standards. They're the police's problem, quite frankly. Unhappy Nazi's are a sign of a healthy society.

Please bear in mind that, when I say Nazi, I mean literal Nazi. People who march around with swastika's, sieg heil'ing, praising Hitler, believe their race is superior, call for the extermination of others based on race, etc.. Nazi's should fear the light of day.

Yes, I agree. Feminists will go find/make a Feminist bar. I'm not going to hang out in a Feminist bar myself though.

Some people are just too extreme to be happy in a space with standards. They're the police's problem, quite frankly. Unhappy Feminist's are a sign of a healthy society.

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The last sentence is a fucking bomber kek

Be careful there mate. You just might out yourself.

He already did with his ghetto example.

> Imagine that you're having a nice life until a black family moves in next door and turns whole area into a ghetto.

Good example of the kind of racism we shouldn’t really accept.

Why did you choose that example instead of, say, “a poor white family moves in next door and turns the whole area into a trailer park”?

So are X and 4chan the Nazi websites cause those people got permitted in then chased everyone else away? Doesn't seem like it

Fediverse in general, though the Masto side seems rather fond of censorship themselves. I recommend finding a small Pleroma/Akkoma instance or hosting your own. Also as a tip you can use an instance's search without an account to check if they block posts from certain other instances before you sign up.

All these are centralized platforms where owners have free reign to block and suppress anyone.

And every decentralised platform is full of kiddy porn.

4chan and Kiwifarms are "centralised" in the sense that they're both a central site, but the underlying imageboard or forum are beyond easy to set up and are usable from about ten active users upward.

New Twitter seems pretty good about this. Nobody is saying stuff like "unalive" or "regarded" there.

Nostr, but most people there just talk about Bitcoin.

mastodon?

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