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Comment by skinkestek | Hacker News Reader

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What is your expectation of how the civilian population of Gaza are meant to live after this? You can repeat your propaganda all you like, but what is the actual outcome you expect from this? In five years time, is this land occupied? By the same population that was displaced, or by Israelis? Or by no one?

The ideal situation would be something like after WW2:

- large international combined army occupies the entirety of Gaza

- every hamas official gets arrested

- trials in Hague (or somewhere else) where we separate between who was just party members, who tried to reduce the evil and who were the masterminds behind the worst parts of it. Some go free, some get a few years and some get life without parole

- international military administration until they are ready for normal elections. In Germany that took 9 years

- lots and lots and lots of campaigns to make them understand that they are not the victims (Germans also thought they were the victims until 1945 and beyond and it took effort to fix that)

- keep a close eye on them for the next 50 - 60 years

Will it happen?

Of course not. But it would be the absolute best outcome for civilians on Gaza.

Why won't it happen? Because half of the world think that the Gazans are the victims because more Gazans have died than Israelis lately. Imagine if we taught WW2 that way: "Germans were mostly innocent victims, over 350 000 absolutely innocent Germans died vs under 10 000 US civilians, wHiCh mEaNs WW2 wAs a aCsHuAlLy a gEn0cIdE aGa1nSt tHe GeRmAn pEoPlE".

Ukraine looks nothing like this

Tell me you know nothing about the war in Ukraine without telling me?

Please look up Mariupol, Bakhmut, Avdiivka, Soledar, Toretsk, Vugledar and Volnovakha. Those are just from Donetsk oblast.

And if you go beyond just the buildings it gets a lot uglier.

After the Allies flattened Nazi Germany (and Japan), civilized peoples looked at what they had done and said "wow we need to agree that this never happens again."

It's always funny hearing these defenses of Israel or Hamas which resolve to "hey what can you expect, they have the moral intuitions of cavepeople!"

Well, now we have let it happen again, the facists of Gaza has attacked israel for 20 years while we looked the other way and finally, after their old provocations (or should I just write terrorist attacks?) stopped working (after Iron Dome and better border controls) they did the the unspeakable things in 2023.

So the question is now: will we let it continue?

When was the "looking the other way" happening?

The region has been locked in tit-for-tat since (at least) Israel broke the initial colonial independence process.

There was never any intention whatsoever from the Israeli side to live in peace with its neighbors. I'm not sure it's incumbent upon the existing residents of an area to welcome someone who quite clearly intends to take all of your land.

Ben-Gurion wrote this to his son eleven years before Israel was created. Before the holocaust started even!:

> A Jewish state in part of Palestine is not an end, but a beginning... We shall bring into the state all the Jews it is possible to bring... then we shall expand to the whole country... We will break through the borders imposed on us...

Same letter:

> If I were an Arab I would have been very indignant... What we really want is not that the land remain whole and unified. What we want is that the whole and unified land be Jewish... [underlined]We want to change the status quo.[/underlined]

Note that he refers to this being a state created in Palestine. He refers to bringing people from elsewhere into this state.

No sympathy from me. Both sides are sufficiently horrible and indefensible to be simply horrible and indefensible.

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