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Comment by roschdal | Hacker News Reader

Electric cars (Tesla+) are much more expensive than gasoline cars to purchase initially.

Are they? An equivalent model don't seem to be significantly more new, and you can now get some great deals on secondhand EVs.

I'm in the UK and have now gone completely electric - motorbike (Zero SRF), car (wife's Model 3) and van (ID Buzz). To be honest though, that was mostly because I like EVs - yes, even the motorbike. The fuel costs are just a bonus.

Since this is a article about UK car costs, lets look at the UK

> Dacia Spring is now the UK’s cheapest car at less than £12k

> The all-electric Dacia Spring now costs less than any other car on the market

https://www.whatcar.com/news/dacia-spring-is-now-the-uks-che...

The article has an honourable mention for the Leapmotor T03, another EV that is only slightly more expensive than the Dacia Spring.

Well what if rather than a Tesla+, one bought a cheaper EV instead? In the UK, the Leapmotor T03 seems to go for around 16000 GBP new. That's actually not much more than an equivalent petrol car.

This depends on country, and what you consider to be a comparable car.

If we compare, for example, the Tesla Model 3 (RWD) against the BMW 3 series (320i), then we get:

NL: Model 3 ~€36K vs 3 series ~€50K UK: Model 3 ~£37K vs 3 series ~£41K

In both countries the Model 3 is more expensive than that the 3 series.

Second hand the maths can change again, since EVs typically depreciate faster, due to battery degradation fears, and the fact that range on newer cars is always improving, but still, typically for a four year old version of the above, the Model 3 is still cheaper than the 3 series.

There is, of course, the discussion on whether it is fair to compare a model 3 with the 3 series, but it is often used, so I'll go with it.

If you want to compare cheaper cars, then you could compare a Ford Focus with an MG4 EV, and in the UK the EV wins, in NL, the Gasoline car wins, but in both cases, they are more price comparable.

Not to forget greater depreciation. So for those who drive relatively little the ICE card might still have lower total cost of ownership. Not to forget time comparison on fuelling versus charging.

When you buy used, the depreciation works in your favour.

You can get a mint condition IONIQ 5 with 300bhp and 20-minute charging for less than a new Corolla.

Does it still charge as new?

Used cars still take a full fuel tank.

Yes, and it's easy to verify how much of the original capacity remains (95% typically).

The deprecation has very little to do with the cars themselves. It's mainly due to original prices being inflated during covid demand spike + chip shortage followed by releases of decent brand new EVs under £25K.

Used cars have piston ring wear that reduces their efficiency and thus milage.

Which can be repaired, even if the whole motor has to be opened.

Which costs money...

Much less than with a second hand EV, possible battery issues, and the whole subscription model.

A 250,000 mile Tesla battery is less likely to need replacement (3% odds p.a.) than a 250,000 mile Toyota engine (4% odds p.a.). And a Tesla battery is slightly below average reliability compared to other brands and of course a Toyota motor is more reliable than any other brand.

I would bet that this is different for cars made in the last 3-4 years. More and more stats from the automobile clubs are rolling in that show that electric vehicles last much longer, because they have less moving parts, and that batteries last much longer than expected.

So as of today, I’d certainly buy electric if I was worried about depreciation.

Surely depreciation is determined by the buyer's expected price? So it doesn't matter if objectively you say the battery is at 95% health but all the buyers apply a steep discount due to it being an EV.

And for the buyer, it's about perceived value compared to other vehicles. Even an unused well-stored 6 year old EV would have to sell at substantial discount compared to its purchase price because new EVs are just better

Depreciation will slow down when the rate of improvement slows down

It is not like normal cars don't already last very long time. Decade plus on good brands is nothing now. EVs may or may do pretty much the same.

Has the UK decided to block or add protectionist regulations to Chinese EV imports?

No. Jaecoo (Chinese but not really an EV company) is the third best selling car at the moment. You see a tonnes of BYDs about. We also have Geely and Leapmotor

many other too, including:

MG is a British car badge, now owned by SAIC China

Volvo and Polestar are owned by Geely

LEVC makes the new EV London black cabs, is also owned by Geely

XPeng and Omoda are present too.

No, at least not yet. It was one of the issues when discussing with EU, as they were worried those EV will get routed through UK to EU without tariff.

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