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Comment by WhitneyLand | Hacker News Reader

What was misleading was the original title:

"Jev: New frontier model 40-400x cheaper and 20-200x faster"

I'm not the gatekeeper of who gets to call themselves a frontier model, but I don't think most people would count Jev in that group. It sounds false.

If their specific claims hold up, then it would make more sense to say something like:

"Advanced the speed/cost frontier for structured decisions"

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I dunno, I would consider Waymo and Tesla to have frontier models.

I think AlphaFold and related are also frontier models.

Being an LLM does not seem like the qualifier for frontier.

This is likely still an LLM (in the purest definition of a language model with relatively many parameters) since the inputs are natural language, just not a generative LLM as the output is something other than more language.

The inputs aren't natural language. https://docs.typesafe.ai/primitives

The inputs are natural language, they're just also structured into a tree. The first example on that very page shows natural language instructions:

    questions = {
        "refund_requested": Noul(
            instructions="Does the customer request a refund?",
        ),
    }

The hybrid nature of this thing is not a detriment, nor does it make it an LLM.

It is frontier in the sense it is exploring an unexplored domain. I do agree on questioning the comparatives though. Speed/cost is indeed relevant for problems that can be framed as structured decisions only. The question is, would defining a structured decision model be a structured decision model itself? This would significantly increase the application domain.

Large language models are not the only type of model.

How is this not a frontier model? It's bleeding edge in its own niche. It's not a frontier LLM; however, applicable to many of the things people use LLMs for.

It's nothing like a traditional LLM and so should not be compared to one. It's a heavily constrained, tiny model that can only produce a probability score or a yes/no answer over pre-defined selections. It has no long-context capacity.

I mean, imagine comparing this thing to Astra, it's hilarious. They don't even tell you what the max input size is, and they only allow 10 possible answers to choose from for the Choice mode. It's probably like a 1billion param model. They say it's "not small", but there's zero reason to believe that.

I suspect someone will be able to recreate this within a week by piecing together open-weight models.

> It's nothing like a traditional LLM and so should not be compared to one.

Frontier LLMs are expensive jack of all trades. You can absolutely compare them to purpose-built tools on any domain they touch. Engineering is all about assessing tradeoffs.

Well, not quite a week: https://x.com/harshagundal/status/2100044305536889015 - apparently it took him 2 hours.

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