Hacker News Reader

Comment by vijayr | Hacker News Reader

Very good article. I think at some level, most "nice" people know they are taken advantage of. They know that they are supposed to say no, but they don't - primary reason being they don't know how to say no, plus they don't want to offend anyone. So the cycle keeps going.

View on HN

Also don't underestimate the payback that people who are nice get from being nice. They crave the thank you's and the attention from doing a favor for someone. So they do get something. But many times they will then end up feeling like a schmuck after the fact, and guilty, when that wears off. Then they will go to get the next "hit" by doing a favor for someone else.

There's an important distinction to be made here, that the article overlooks, and skimming through the comments that others have overlooked too... there is a difference unprovoked generosity and expected generosity.

I'll quite happily give up my time to make others happy, because doing so is its own reward. However, when that generosity is expected (people repeatedly asking for favours, etc...), that's when resentment starts to build.

So you see, for some people (myself included), I'm happy being 'nice' without expecting anything in return, but I'm not happy for that to be taken for granted.

Plus they aren't confident enough to know that people will still like them even if they don't do everyone favors.

This is something I've struggled to understand too - how is it that someone who is always nice to everyone isn't high on the popularity list (they are only remembered when needed) whereas someone who only cares about his/her stuff, is popular?

Because to be popular is to be admired, and nobody admires someone who's desperate for approval.

True and this also more or less dovetails with wanting what you can't have as well.

This is the core of the issue... the people in question are being misunderstood. Yes, some people crave approval, but there's another group that crave building happiness, and the two are not the same thing.

People prefer to mix with other people that behave in a way that they would like to emulate.

Someone that cares about their own stuff, is confident etc, both provides an example to follow and implicitly projects a moral judgment that it's OK for others to live how they do.

Someone who hurts themself (question of degree here maybe) to be nice implicitly projects the moral judgment that others should do the same. People don't really want to be like that; being around the person makes them feel guilty, or perhaps they just don't want to appear disagreeable by not reciprocating; they avoid the person except insofar as they might actually want the help being given.

Unfortunately (especially so for people who honestly hate themselves and would never explicitly recommend that others emulate their own self-deprecating behaviour) that moral implication - that arises from the reflexive belief that everyone is in control of themselves and so ultimately wouldn't do anything they don't approve of - is not entirely avoidable, since it rests partly in the eye of the beholder.

Supply and demand. The nice person is always available so they are cheap.

Because being fun to be around, confident, etc is much more desirable to others than being help.

A way to illustrate this would be the nerd in the library helping the pretty girl vs. the jock who gets the girl.

The question is what would happen if the jock also helped the girl in the library? Would that make him more or less attractive because he had become attainable?

Probably more attractive, but not because he's attainable, just because he's helpful, which is a good quality.

If being helpful gives you one point, being confident gives you a hundred. You can be a confident and a bit selfish (but not mean, or a jerk) and still be at around ninety-nine points, which is a lot.

I can't give many examples without the context, because they won't come through correctly and people will just think I'm being mean.

I'd go further. They don't know that people will not like them if they keep on saying 'yes'. Someone who can say 'no' when he needs to is more respected than a yesman.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com