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Comment by AShyFig | Hacker News Reader

I've always been a bit confused about the right to repair debate, especially as it concerns John Deere equipment. I don't own any "new" John Deere products, but I do have a few pieces circa ~2010. Perhaps my experience is out of date.

Here's how it's always worked for me:

1. A code comes up on the computer.

2. A. The problem is self evident. Or;

2. B. I search online and find the problem. Or;

2. C. I search online and find the diagnostics manual, which I use to find the problem. Then I have diagnostics manual pdf forever, and can use this in the future.

3. A. I search online and find the parts diagram. Or;

3. B. I search my dealers website and find the parts diagram.

4. I order the part.

5. I install the part.

Has something changed with newer equipment that prevents farmers from doing this?

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Newer Deere equipment has a lot of components that have to be adapted using DSA - turbo actuators, various hydraulic sensors, various suspension leveling sensors, fuel injectors, interior displays, and anything SCR related are the big ones. Basically, any sensor that needs a calibration step or triggers an emissions code, or a few intentionally vehicle locked modules (ECM).

Interesting. I just finished with a thorny hydraulics problem on a 9870 Combine. It turned out to be a faulty sensor. Part of my troubleshooting involved buying a new sensor, and swapping out each sensor in the system one by one with the new unit until I was sure they were all working correctly. No calibration needed. When i do need to calibrate a system i can do it all from the onboard computer.

What a systemic downgrade in capabilities.

Yeah, that’s a good way to summarize what people are mad about; they basically moved all of the calibration from onboard to offboard diagnostics, and then thwarted most efforts to access the offboard diagnostics.

Automotive is similar and I’m a bit worried for EVs; for ICE autos there’s enough emissions related regulation that some diagnostics and manuals are accessible, but for EVs there’s nothing much stopping a Deere style complete lockdown.

Exactly, go look at Lucid/Tesla and a few others for examples of how the car is a brick without the manufacturers sekret unlock codes and calibration software. If they decide not to help, you are out of luck.

Ah but you didn't buy the car, you bought a license to drive the car. You know, like CD or Playstation game.

Until some kind anon hopefully leaks it...

The parts talk to each other and verify each other's serial numbers and refuse to work if they don't match, and none of the documents you referenced exist.

Some newer equipment has no service manual available.

It's a subscription, with a DRM system so you have to use their app to browse the manual, and you can't print/save more than a couple pages per month.

That's why I won't touch new equipment with a ten foot pole. I buy old stuff and then end up having to do major rebuilds. I realize this is somewhat of a luxury, and damn is it nice.

In the last calendar year, this is basically the highlights (routine maintenance excluded):

On my Kubota L3010 I added remote hydraulics so I had to take all the bodywork apart. Discovered some rust, put about 20hr of panel beating, welding, and paint into the floor pan (NLA part, unfortunately). About 20hr after I got it all back together it started leaking hydraulic fluid from the clutch housing. So I get the privilege of doing all that disassembly again to split the tractor and replace the front driveshaft seal (suspected). It's a minor leak, so far, so this might wait a few years.

The 1998 12V 2nd gen Dodge is its own saga--new transmission, clutch, a bunch of paint work. Rebuilt the entire interior. Currently working on cleaning up wiring in the engine bay, killer dowel pin fix, fixing oil leaks from the injector pump gasket and vac/power steering pump, serp belt, crank balancer, etc. Still need to drop the fuel tank and replace the sending unit, as well as re-seal the axles.

My 1995 Land Cruiser just got new plugs, distributor cap/rotor, belts, crank balancer, front main seal, oil pump o-ring, etc. Should be good until next summer.

My 1999 Benz got some new A/C o-rings, all the low pressure fuel lines replaced, some rust repair (welding, panel beating, paint, undercoating, etc) on the front right jackpoint. All new stainless brake lines (https://www.linestogo.com/ 100% will buy from these guys again). This car is kind of sacrificial, eventually its engine (OM606) is going in the Land Cruiser in front of a purpose-built NV4500 transmission. If the rust doesn't get it first (ski bus duty), I'll probably shred the 722.6 by turning up the engine too much.

So it's not a small amount of work. But no reverse engineering is required. I can just read a book and follow the instructions therein and do literally anything that needs to be done on those vehicles.

The parts have to be unlocked with like a DRM system to work.

Fiddling around the way a casual working on their own car would isn't economically viable at scale. Labor use needs to be more efficient than that. Even if you can swap the right parts fast, lots of new stuff requires "permission" to install various hardware. Like some random make might not let you install a steering rack or something.

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