A bit concerning how some people in this thread will bend over backwards to defend mass surveillance. Not surprising given who owns the board, but still.
The problem with mass surveillance rollouts in the West is that they are incomplete: the cameras might go up, but not all infractions caught on camera are actually punished. Meanwhile, in China vandals and other disruptive people do get traced back to where they live and apprehended. I think that if such a vigorous policy were applied in other countries, even on a contrarian forum like this one you wouldn't see much opposition to the cameras.
You think the commenters on HN would sacrifice liberty in return for safety? I get the opposite impression.
Many East Asian countries try to write their laws so that niche cases are covered, and enforcement is tighter. In the West we leave endless loopholes in overbroad laws so that (a) everyone is probably breaking some law frequently and (b) the only people who frequently face consequences are politically disfavored groups, “troublemakers”, or those who harm elites. It’s all very Soviet.
Man unless you have different definition of so called social harmony, you can't be more wrong. Literally everyone is talking about 社会戾气 on Chinese social media and there are a big bunch of people seeking extreme means.
> Meanwhile, in China vandals and other disruptive people do get traced back to where they live and apprehended.
Nope. You think Chinese police force have unlimited amount manpower? We say the first lesson young people learn upon entering society is calling the police, 报警是社会第一课.
My wife is at the point where she would probably like a flock camera on our street. I’m at the point where I wouldn’t mind a patrol car circling the area, like a damn police state. What else would you suggest people support when they are harassed by crime this much?
(Edit to expand): instead of just complaining I’ll meta-point. People will vote for things like flock cameras when society is unsafe, or they feel unsafe. Right now, in the USA, lots of places are visibly unsafe and people deal with actual threats from bad actors much more often than they deal with police overreach. If you want people to vote against mass surveillance then you need to support policy that makes mass surveillance unnecessary, and you need to do it now instead of “in a future communist utopia there will be no crime” kind of policy (I use this because it’s what I see a lot of in Seattle). Weak on crime is anti-urban, weak on crime is pro police state.
Very strange that Americans now view a patrolling policeman as a "police state". After all, a strolling constabulary (which would drive in the US since no one walks) was part of even the 19th-century progressive "policing by consent" model that is still well regarded today.
How would a flock camera deter a thief from breaking into your garage? It's a false sense of security. I had a guy break into two tenant spaces with a screwdriver with cameras pointed all over the place. He just wore a surgical mask and hood while keeping his head down. Nothing could ID him. I had all the locks upgraded and one tenant installed an alarm system. That's all we can do.
A better question to ask is why is there so much blatant and rampant crime? Have you attended any community meetings with local representatives and voiced concerns? Have you spoke to your neighbors about these incidents (do you know your neighbors?) Maybe you live in an area who's government takes some silly light handed approach to policing, justice and reform. You either deal with it or move.
I say this as someone who agrees, cameras don’t work much. But my point is that people had better support some alternative then, instead of blocking every other attempt to improve the situation.
It's not dealing with it because its lazy passive action where citizens shrug responsibility off to a 3rd party who only cares about making money and not the people on the other end. Nothing actually happens because cameras won't deter anything and only increase the ability for the government to abuse people.
Dealing with it means learning from the past and taking action. If the lock on your garage was picked then harden the garage lock. If your car was broken into then maybe it's safer in the garage. Buy your own motion sensing cameras with remote viewing. Install security bars or security windows and doors. Motion sensing lights all over. You either sit around and cry for someone else to magically fix the crime problem or defend your possessions.
What a load of bullshit victim blaming.
And from the original description it certainly sounds like you are living in an area where there is no enforcement. That is clearly a failure of you local municipality of which you are a part of. Now with that in mind, again, tell me how flock cameras are going to fix a seemingly non-functional government and police department?
> What a load of bullshit victim blaming.
If your local government isn't doing anything then you need to step up and protect yourself in its absence. Sorry if reality sucks.
Hard/bad/no jobs? People will steal. And the thefts may cost $3000 to replace, but $300 in theft goods.
And even if you have a good job, inflation and US citizens getting fucked over by trump tariffs and inflation makes every year that much harder.
And when you KNOW the folks at the top (either party) are cheating, have always cheated, and will continue to do so - why the hell should I follow the law? It can be tax cheating, or copyright infringement, cutting down Flock (YC17) scameras, or more.
And when you KNOW you don't have any upward mobility and are stuck socioeconomically, well, it leads to what you see.
If we look at China, they have a whole different set of problems. The simpletons here will just bemoan 'Communist China' and are stuck in a McCarthyism mindset.