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Comment by rprasad | Hacker News Reader

Apple refuses to license any product which combines the Lightning connector with any older Apple connector. Thus, buyers would have had to use the 30-pin to USB (or USB to Lightning connector, which is apparently not available in the US?). Either way, this was not the product that they Kickstarted. They decided to do the right thing, by returning the Kickstarter money. The company behind the Kickstart is contemplating whether to have a new kickstarter that would feature Apple connectivity by way of the usb-to-apple connectors (rather than through dedicated connectors like they have/had in the current version).

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I think their mistake was Kickstarting something for "Apple iPhones, Apple iPads, Apple iPods, other Apple devices, (and oh yeah some of those other things that make up the majority of the world's rechargable devices too)".

It's just plain unwise to make business promises to deliver interoperability with proprietary interfaces without having your agreements in place first.

As a side note, I'm quite disappointed that we as a technological society can no longer implement basic means of supplying low-voltage DC power for a users' own devices.

It's essentially the same thing as relying too heavily on a closed API.

Apparently the Apple product insists on talking to a DRM chip in the cable so it's exactly a case of relying on a closed API.

Except it wasn't a mistake. Just because it failed doesn't mean it was a mistake.

We should be admiring them for taking risks like these. If it worked, it would have been quite awesome. And now that it's failed, everyone received their money back, so no harm was done whatsoever.

Yes, it was their choice to return the money rather than pivot the project, but that's irrelevant -- the fact is that they returned all the money to the backers and chose to absorb the $11k loss themselves. This is behavior we should be encouraging, rather than trying to discourage people from daring to dream and to take harmless risks.

I admire them for taking risks.

But just I hate to see anyone having to eat credit card fees on $139,170 for something that was preventable.

Power connectors have historically been low-risk parts so it's an understandable mistake. But sourcing and costing all the needed custom parts should have been one of the first steps in the hardware design process.

But just I hate to see anyone having to eat credit card fees on $139,170 for something that was preventable.

It was their risk to take! Why do you care?

So what if they didn't? It's their decision.

I'm struggling to understand what your point is. "Here's why [I think] they failed." Well, yes, in hindsight, mistakes are obvious. But in the moment, things aren't so clear-cut.

> It was their risk to take! Why do you care?

I care. My reasons are my own.

> So what if they didn't?

Then the credit card companies and Kickstarter gain $11000, the entrepreneur loses $11000, and we all have a friendly discussion on HN.

> It's their decision.

Yes, absolutely.

> I'm struggling to understand what your point is.

I have two points. I'll repeat them, they're pretty simple:

1. Don't make business promises to deliver interoperability with proprietary interfaces without having your agreements in place first.

2. Sourcing and costing all the needed custom parts should be done early in the hardware design process.

> in hindsight, mistakes are obvious. But in the moment, things aren't so clear-cut.

Words to live by.

It would have taken a single phone call to Apple's licensing group to learn that this would be a problem. They didn't make that phone call. That was a mistake.

It would have taken a single phone call to Apple's licensing group to learn that this would be a problem.

That's not true. Apple saying "no" when there is no money on the table and no popular interest means nothing.

Apple saying "no" when you have customers beating down your door and $130k to divide between licensing and manufacturing is a different matter. Apple chose to pass up this money. There was no way to foresee this until the choice was on the table.

A rule book is not immutable.

Building first and asking permission later is sometimes admirable.

But one ought to weigh in advance whether or not 1000 customers and funds on the order of $130k is likely to provide enough leverage to bend the rules of a company with, literally, the most money in the whole world and a famously proprietary attitude.

Looks like it may prove to have been a good bet after all!

http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/21/apple-statement-on-cancell...

According to the article it sounds like they started on the design before Apple announced the new connector, and then updated their design once the connector was announced. Also it seems they did contact Apple but "[they] didn’t get a yes or a no up front,”. Once they finally got a straight answer from Apple they canceled the product. So apparently they did make that phone call and it wasn't as simple as you seem to want to make it.

Before they did the kickstarter, they were fully in the right by Apple's own guidelines and policies. Even now, they're in compliance with the public ones, just not the 'just about to be released even more anti-competitive ones'.

You get a usb-to-lightning cable with any new iOS device, that's what you would use with it. By just providing a female usb port, bring-your-own-cables, they wouldn't need licensing from Apple at all.

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