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Comment by throw0101a | Hacker News Reader

> And then the Europeans suddenly discover that they cannot manufacture enough artillery shells and tanks to out-number the Russians.

Germany (by itself) is apparently out-producing the US artillery shell production.

* https://www.newsweek.com/germany-overtakes-us-in-ammunition-...

Russia's GDP is below that of Italy (and barely above Canada, who is in NATO):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

If the Europeans really want to, they could produce a lot more by converting over to 'war mode'. Certainly they need to do more with current geopolitics, but there is no need to crank it to 11.

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>if the Europeans really want to, they could produce a lot more by converting over to 'war mode'

As an Italian there's definitely been a perceptible shift due to the increase in defense spending. Leonardo now makes TV ads (something I had never seen before), they advertise on newspapers (...)

Off topic, but it's funny to me how the Leonardo TV ads basically skips over the defense part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXytSNOt_0I

Note that GDP does not directly translate into a number of tanks and missiles produced. I doubt Italy has more weapon than Russia.

Of course, because Russia spends 7+% of its GDP on its military, and Italy 1.6%. It does say something about the relative capacity though. Russia probably cannot sustain this level of spending forever, and European countries could (continue) raising it if needed.

> Note that GDP does not directly translate into a number of tanks and missiles produced. I doubt Italy has more weapon than Russia.

Not wrong, but GDP is a rough metric of economic and industrial capacity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing. And Italy is just one member of NATO:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

If the economic capacity is in "the service sector" it's going to be just about meaningless in a war.

> Not wrong, but GDP is a rough metric of economic and industrial capacity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing.

Italy can make more expensive tanks that would amount to a bigger GDP. It doesn't mean it'll make more and better tanks.

> Italy can make more expensive tanks that would amount to a bigger GDP. It doesn't mean it'll make more and better tanks.

Just because Italy is making one kind of tank now does not preclude them making another type of tank later on. If a design change needs to be done, the important part is that there is some kind of tank building capability around, and the rest can be adjusted as needs arise.

Chinese tanks costs 5x less than Italian ones. Same GDP, different amounts of real assets. In the past people would use the quality excuse but that's not the case anymore, the Chinese ones are probably better.

yes all those guys selling drinks on the beach can just take a bus to the tank factory.

> yes all those guys selling drinks on the beach can just take a bus to the tank factory.

Exactly. (What do you think happened during WW2? When war broken out everyone learned to make tanks (and planes, and machine guns, and…). In Ukraine a whole bunch of people learned how to make drones that never made one before. )

> ity. So if Italy wanted to, it could convert its economy to produce tanks and missiles at a similar rate as Russia is doing.

This is pure NAFO-oid cope, which it shouldn’t surprise me seeing the technical audience here (no Svechin stans on HN, that’s for sure, knowing your Svechin doesn’t ever bring any VC money nor big-tech employment), but still. Back to arrr stupidpol for me.

it doesnt, but it does speak to an ability to invest in tank production

dunno why youd want tanks and not drones though, when even russia's new tanks with anti-drone defenses can be taken out by 30ish drones

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