And this is why it's relatively unlikely to find worthy successors: Making the whole be as good as the sum of its parts is hard enough. Getting to be as good as Pirates, or the best Cinemaware games, where the whole was significantly better than all of the games in isolation, is aiming foolishly high. Which is why, say, the xcom remakes are such a wonder, because they manage to both change the original two minigames underneath, improving them substantially, all while still being balanced.
Sure, but that's extremely common these days! Genre blending is all over the place. Tons of action games have base building mechanics, for example. Or management sim things. Everything has RPG mechanics these days.
I dunno. Obviously this increases complexity a lot but things have changed significantly in the game industry since Sid Meier said that
Specifically, if the minigames were too engrossing and the overarching layer too complex, you'd go into one of them with an objective that you've forgotten by the time you gotten out of it.[5]
And it's not a new argument, either. XCOM, also published by Microprose as a later contemporary, was very close to the medley model that Meier felt that he struggled with, but its various modes and mechanical levels (base-building, interceptors, budget/time/people management, research and manufacturing, tactical combat) all worked so well that it became the DNA for decades of a franchise.[6]
There's still a point to be made about maintaining an overarching focus, but it's a much muddier, know-it-when-you-see-it (or not-for-everybody) quality to it that makes it hard to turn into an actual rule.
1: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/covert-action-review
2: https://mssv.net/2010/09/19/covert-action-and-pirates/
3: https://scientificgamer.com/in-praise-of-covert-action/
4: https://www.filfre.net/2017/03/whats-the-matter-with-covert-...
5: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/game-platforms/analysis-sid-me...
6: Instead of writing a long comment, I'll link to the last long comment I wrote about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36297056
There's a simplification of multi-genre-ism these days that didn't exist then, mostly because nobody knew what the rules for a good ____ game even were.
Now, it's like getting a "Greatest Hits of {Genre}" mini game embedded in the main game. Sure they're tasty, but not as weirdly interesting.
Look at the Elder Scrolls. Skyrim is a lot more complex than Morrowind in a lot of ways, but Morrowind gives the player more actual freedom with the spell creating and such.
"Weirdly interesting" describes Morrowind to a T
Likely driven by increasing AAA-class game development budgets + the consolidation of publisher-developer first party studios. Both of which create organizational inertia to hedge risk.
It felt like the 00s and 10s were marked by 'everything you expect, with one magical new feature.'
E.g. Halo (infinite downtime-recharging shields), Gears (tight cover mechanics)
From what I've read, Morrowind avoided this by a distinct lack of adults in the room (in the sense of boring, risk-hedgers) for much of its pre-development and a decent chunk of its main development cycle. Also, the creative team on it being incredibly hard-working and inspired.
In fairness, this was often enough to make a game really stand out and inject a lot more fun into an otherwise expected formula.
It's certainly a lot better than what the 2020s have been so far imo. There have been a couple of stand-out games this decade but mostly I'm so interested in anything the AAA portion of the industry is doing. No one seems to be pushing things forward almost at all anymore from what I can tell
Personally, I'd just rather have a tragically-flawed but also creatively-great Populus, Lemmings, Myst, or Worms.
> No one seems to be pushing things forward almost at all anymore from what I can tell
Imho, that's the tyranny of spectacle budget. At any given time, it costs this much to make something that meets state of the art, and gamers expect state of the art from their AAA games.
Hopefully gen-AI provides a (still-likely temporary) reprieve from that, by lowering the cost of AAA-quality via more efficient labor and therefore making publishers take more risk on unique games.
"Building is more fun than breaking" - (may be paraphrased).
It never quite recaptured the charm of the original, but that might just be because I’m older.
two point museum is 33% off and hospital is 75% off right now.
For those who are asking: this successor is Satellite Reign:
It's very much a similar game.
Imagine a modern Syndicate remake... it would "have to" be MMO, it would "have to" have character development, as in the stats would go up. It would "have to" be "rogue-like" (ie procedural level generation, no story.)
It's a non-starter. No studio would accept the idea of the game as it is, since the graphics required to be "modern" would need an amount of work that wouldn't mix with the length of the gameplay of the original.
Satellite Reign is what crap it comes to otherwise. Even though it was kickstarted, the "studio vision" ensured it was stillborn.
Unfortunately I think the modern gaming public would be allergic to isometric third person, especially as soon as they encounter visibility issues.
Satellite Reign has been released as a full game, playable from start to finish and it's really excellent (no idea tbh why the Steam reviews are stuck at 'Mixed', kids these days smh...). It takes a bit to get into the 'flow' and discover all the little gameplay details but once you "got it" it's a lot of fun. I usually do a playthrough at least once a year.
Also re Pirates: one of my favourite 'strategy' games on the Amiga. The 2004 remake in 3D is fun but the graphics really haven't aged well and the art style wasn't all that great to start with.
I'd really like to see a modern 2D Pirates remake with a bit more historical details and fewer gimmicks (e.g. no sword fights and QTE dancing please).
I'd still rate the game a 7/10 because it's so absurdly fun if you can get passed all of this, but it's easy to see how it probably never reached even a fraction of its potential market.
I was a kickstarter supporter, having played syndicate in childhood, but remember bouncing about 1-2hrs in, mostly because it felt bland, but would love to hear if the world and action becomes more involved :).
And within a mission you always need to maintain 'tactical awareness', always have an escape route in mind, scout ahead for guard routes and schedules, hack doors and cameras, select the best approach to tackle a specific type of guard or robot. And then of course no mission goes as planned, your team gets pinned down and you need to fight your way out or find a place to hide until the alarm level cools down.
Also depending on the approach you choose for a specific mission you may need to change your team's equipment and cyberware before entering the mission area, or maybe you decide that it's better to first raid the military barracks of the district, hoping to get some new weapon and cyberware blueprints. Or you spend some downtime looking for scientists to hijack (which increase research rate for blueprints), or look for new random people in the streets with better attributes for cloning. Or running low on money maybe it's better to first rob the district bank. Each new district is harder than the last, and during the entire game you're essentially preparing for the final confrontation with the main baddy.
For a relatively small indie game there's a lot of 'gameplay density', I can understand though that the game may feel repetivite, but especially starting to tackle a new district may quickly feel like routine, but that initial routine only exists as preparation for the two or three main mission areas in the district, and those are the 'meat' of the game.
Peter Molyneux did some amazing stuff but overpromised and underdelivered a lot. [1]
But some stuff was amazing, PowerMonger was pretty impressive too, but didn't have the succinctness Populous had.
[1] https://www.pcgamer.com/godus-is-deadus-peter-molyneuxs-cont...
And whilst there are many games in the fighting genre, there's never been any other game like OMF.
One of the best parts of the game: Your scowling coach berating you for getting the robot too smashed up and then having to pay for the repairs.
And DeBisco did a psytrance mix of the Power Plant theme, which is also epic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7C-f2FpNy0
Very much Syndicate vibes
tbh if you want to scratch the pirate-y itch, Assassin's Creed Black Flag is excellent, if just for the sea shanties.
Which has itself just had a remake released for it I see! I don't keep up with games these days.
Or if you have a real C64 with a CRT that would be best, but than with some kind of mass storage attached (anything that is faster than a 1541 since the game is so big it has to load before every fight or other activity).
The game can be pretty immersive and playing it through is a multiple hour endeavour.
If in a ship to ship fight, you gotta raise sails first (by moving the joystick up).
Edit: Vice is an emulator packaged in Debian Contrib, but you need the C64 ROM file (easy to find online).
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Sid_Meiers_Pirates_1987
https://archive.org/details/PiratesMacintosh
There are probably others, but Archive.org is misbehaving at the moment.
So if anyone knows a better title - I'd likely give it a try!
https://this.os.isfine.org/#syndicate-plus
With some improvements and, uhm, modernizations https://www.linkedin.com/posts/georgzoeller_i-ported-syndica...?
Rat Trap/Krusty's Fun House (available on Amiga just like Lemmings)
Chuchu rockets
This is really getting into the weeds, but there is also the Japanese game Bazaru De Gozaru for the PC Engine CD (TurboGrafx 16 CD)
Concerning Lemmings: Gemini listed the following games that are at least similar in spirit:
- Humanity (2023)
- Zombie Night Terror (2016)
- Spirits (2011)
- Craftlings (2026)
Creepers https://www.myabandonware.com/game/creepers-1kj
Had the same feel from what I remember playing it as a kid. Did the link so it wasn't the wrong one from the screenshots.
It has been years since I went though my totes of PC games, so I was glad I had the right name.
Pirates! was a gift from my wife years ago, and I kind disappeared for a couple of weeks. The dancing was tedious though :-)
EDIT: did a quick search. I played Pirates on the C64 and never heard of the rather recent "Gold" edition for PC. I know where I'm going to spend the next weekend! Thanks for bringing it to my attention <3
The gold edition doesn't have the eras selection and the treasure fleet doesn't exist the same way. Sailing is easier but I became promoted quickly with all countries and could never attack a town. Promotions are easier. Not a edition.
I see a lot of DotC influence in Paradox's grand strategy games. Especially so when playing CK2 or CK3 in the British Isles.