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Comment by mysterydip | Hacker News Reader

I was on the fence for a long time as well. It just looked like a lot of work. And not to sugar coat it, it _is_ a lot of work. But it’s also been so rewarding. You get to see someone experience things for the first time, like riding a bike or eating a tomato. Teaching them it’s ok to have feelings, helping them overcome their fears, watching them make friends. Giving them the advice I wished I had heard from someone I trusted growing up. And a million other things. And the hug and kiss at night with “I love you daddy” can’t be replicated.

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To offer a contrasting opinion, I was on the fence, went for it, and it was a big mistake. Unfortunately, it's impossible to be sure what it'll be like until you try it. And there's no undo button. I would strongly recommend not having children until you're absolutely sure you want to.

Absolutely agree! There are people that parenting is not a good fit, for various reasons. And it does a disservice to both the parent and the child.

> I would strongly recommend not having children until you're absolutely sure you want to.

That's good advice. I'll add the caveat that sometimes you cannot be entirely sure (few things in life are so clear cut), but if you truly hesitate, don't do it. Also don't do it for the sake of a partner who insists, or to save your relationship. Big mistake; children are neither bargaining chips nor bets that can pay off.

If you're leaning towards "yes", however, I think it can be a wonderful (if hard!) experience.

Yeah, I guess 100% certainty is not achievable. But it should be to the point where the thought is “hell yeah, let’s do this” rather than “I’m not so sure.”

Surely a lot of this can be experienced by associating with parents and their children rather than having them yourself, right?

This may sound somewhat reductive, and please correct me if that is the case, but I find that I can be around and play with my nephew and experience all of this wonder and how he progresses through life, while not being around for the sleepless nights and tantrums that I feel are the "work" part of being a parent.

In the spirit of this forum and at the risk of being very cringe, I’d guess that’s like being the founder of a company versus being one of the early employees :)

In part, for sure. I was an uncle for a long time, which formed part of my hesitation. But there’s a different level of investment and connection if you are responsible for something 24/7. Like visiting someone’s house and seeing their dog do a trick, vs having your own dog and training it. There’s people who can articulate it better than me, but (not to sound sappy about it) the first time I held my firstborn my world changed.

Edit: I think another poster put it well that “it wasn’t about ‘me’ anymore”. Depending on your disposition, this could be great or it could be really bad. I’ve definitely changed for the better over the course of being a parent.

I like your dog trick analogy, that definitely helped me understand it more :)

No, unfortunately. It's similar, but different in my opinion / view.

Obviously a personal anecdote and YMMV, but I have several nieces and nephews, and I've gotten to watch them grow over the last ~15 years. During this time, I've tried to spend as much time with them as I can.

But I'm a new dad as of this year, and it's totally different. It really doesn't compare.

There's only so much time you can spend with someone else's kid, even if they're family. Even seeing a niece or nephew every week doesn't compare with waking up with a newborn at 3 AM and seeing them stick their tongue out for the first time, or seeing the squinty face they make when they try a strawberry for the first time at 5 PM on a random Tuesday.

It also doesn't compare with the sheer joy of having a little one who joyfully loves the heck out of you because you've bonded with each other and they feel loved and secure with you -- you've cared for them, loved them unconditionally, been understanding, responsive, and emotionally stable with them, and patiently/consistently enforced healthy boundaries on their behavior.

In a sense, one could say there's no greater joy.

But there's also perhaps no greater pain when parenting gets really complex and hard. One of my kids is autistic and raising him has been incredibly difficult and painful (he's a teen now).

As is the case with so many things, the person you're replying to will reply with what they can quantify about the experience, but there is much much more to it that is unquantifiable and hard to convey. It is the difference between "using" someone's child for the satisfaction of these experiences, versus raising a child for their own sake, that you are wholly responsible for, especially in the early years.

What I found and I think this is quite common for men is my attitude to kids in general completely changed once I had my own.

> Surely a lot of this can be experienced by associating with parents and their children rather than having them yourself, right?

No, not really.

Also not the same as being the cool uncle/aunt, though that can give you a lightweight preview. I know because I went through this myself, I was so involved with my nephews I became their favorite uncle by far, and to this day they still remind me of this.

In reality, only being an actual parent can give you the true experience. Nothing else comes close.

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