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Comment by flyinglizard | Hacker News Reader

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Why tf would Israel, supposedly "surrounded by enemies" need military gains in Lebanon, a sovereign country, or in Gaza, which doesn't even have an army? By "it has to" you mean that the only way to keep their narative afloat is to try to manipulate public opinion?

Gaza attacked Israel on October 7th, 2023. Lebanon joined Gaza’s offense on October 8th, 2023.

And the decade prior to that the IDF would do random incursions and kidnap and shoot a few dozen people at a time in Gaza while it allowed settler terrorists in the West Bank to steal homes and land and you guys always ignore that aspect.

The zionists attacked Palestine in 1948 and took their land and homes by force. All hell broke loose since then.

Are you sure that’s how it went down, Khaled?

This article is from 1899 in the NYT: https://i.imgur.com/A9ZPlhG.png

>Khaled This type of behavior should be reason for a ban.

mentioning someone's name should be a reason to ban?

Misunderstanding, my bad.

in order for the clawback to happen, israelis actually have to believe what they are doing is wrong, at least enough to stop gloating about it.

Israel still has the public narrative, but its iraelis and not the government that is defining it

Anyone can just go on Reddit and watch videos of Israelis murdering children.

https://archivegenocide.com/

Anyone can just go and read Ben Gvir's tweets saying Lebanese mothers must weep and calling for literal extermination.

>All of Lebanon must burn!

>In the Middle East, you don’t win with measured responses and restraint—you need to go berserk. To obliterate.

https://x.com/itamarbengvir/status/2067865510281170957

Nobody believes that this is Israeli's "will to live".

It is bad faith to use Ben Gvir as a representative for Israel, let alone Israelis. He received less than 5% of the votes for parliament and only got to his ministerial position due to the extortive nature of the Israeli political system. This is a guy who was incarcerated and barred from holding any kind of position for a very long time.

You could use many other moderate Israeli politicians, but you chose to bring the one who 95% of the Israeli electorate will not vote for.

Ben Gvir is the minister of national security and has been for years. He literally is a representative of Israel. He may not represent the views of Israelis, but he is in power, and is using that power. That makes him a relevant example, as relevant as the day is long.

Ben Gvir is the minister responsible for domestic security (primarily police, firefighters etc), with no effect (beyond his position in the coalition) on the warfare policy in Lebanon or Gaza. He's not even responsible for Shin Bet (that's the Prime Minster). So while he can spew that rhetoric for his voter base, he can not take any action affecting how the war is conducted. Therefore whatever he said may be used to attest on the man and possibly his voters, but that's not the voice of the Government of Israel nor is it representative of the Israeli public.

>Itamar Ben-Gvir is an Israeli politician and lawyer who has served as the minister of national security since 2022

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir

How is a member of the Israeli government not considered to be a representative of the government of Israel? It's tautologically true that he represents Israel. And yes indeed many of his opinions do represent a huge portion of Israeli public opinion.

It’s the genocide they’re committing that people take issue with, not their will to live.

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