Comment by probably_wrong | Hacker News Reader

Comment by probably_wrong | Hacker News Reader

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On the topic of rules:

> [Rules mean that] someone, or a group of people, sat down and thought about that specific thing and decided on a standard for everyone. When you have to do something, you don't feel lost, because you can just look it up. You don't have to find someone who knows.

I mildly disagree with this stance for two reasons.

First, "you can just look it up" it's like arguing that it's okay if the Linux kernel is badly documented because you can inspect the source code anytime. Try and figure out the rules for opening a GmbH by yourself (and the advantages over a Ug) and let me know if you feel comfortable in doing it without "finding someone who knows".

Second, the problem with inflexible rules is that you can't do anything when someone else breaks them. The case that everybody knows: if you need to renew your residence permit before a specific date you cannot book more than X weeks in advance (rule 1), you have a right to an appointment (rule 2), and the online system is the one and only way to get one (rule 3). So what happens when there are no appointments? Well, you panic, because suddenly your timeframe is very tight (thanks to rule 1) and you cannot reach anyone (rule 3) despite you having a right (rule 2). What happens if you respectfully but firmly demand that which is your legal right? Based on my experience, someone will call security to escort you out. And while I never thought my first time suing someone would be the German government, that was the only way to get them to give me my citizenship after literal years of delays.

Rules are fine, but only when everyone follows them. Once the government starts ignoring them while demanding that everyone else follows them, every rule becomes a potential headache.

Sounds like the rule system worked in your example. What other better solution do you imagine?

> Try and figure out the rules for opening a GmbH by yourself (and the advantages over a Ug) and let me know if you feel comfortable in doing it without "finding someone who knows".

It's possible from the laws, but it's a complex topic. If you do not have the time to understand complex topics you get help...

> Rules are fine, but only when everyone follows them. Once the government starts ignoring them while demanding that everyone else follows them, every rule becomes a potential headache.

Nobody should ignore the rules including the government. But you could sue them successfully because there were rules in place for how a government can operate.

> What other better solution do you imagine?

I believe there are two ways to deal with a system that's not working as intended.

One alternative is to have shock buffers for unexpected circumstances. Berlin, known for its chaotic nature, used to have a second queue at the Foreigner's Office for people who needed an appointment today. You had to queue sometimes even from 3am on, which sucks, but it sucked less than having to cancel your holidays because you couldn't get an appointment. In my case all I needed was a signed piece of paper saying "this person is allowed to stay in Germany until we finally process their papers", but the office had no mechanism (or no will?) to do so.

The other alternative is to pretend that the system works fine, which is what the German administration is currently doing. Sure, I could hire an attorney to sue the government - it will cost me an upright investment of 1k€, it will take months, and all I'll get afterwards is most of my administrative costs (forget about my canceled flight) and an appointment.

Edit: on the topic of the GmbH, it is a complex topic because the German government made it complex. Estonia, Texas, and my own home country have much simpler rules for starting your own small company. Every government keeps promising "we'll simplify bureaucracy and we'll digitize" and yet all we get is new rules and more letters.

Sorry you had that experience.

I supervised a PhD who had come to Germany and through her indirectly experienced the immigration office.

When your residence permit runs out, and your application is still being processed, you automatically get a temporary permit for the time until your application is done.

But the temporary permit arrives only a few days before the deadline. Quite a few people don’t understand that part or don’t trust the process - and get into a real panic.

For the GmbH: It’s quite easy. Google for “Musterprotokoll”. That’s a one-page document with all the statutes a company needs and a fast-track process if you want to not deviate from it. Or you get a template from the IHK homepage and adjust it.

I did it - no problemo.

> Once the government starts ignoring them while demanding that everyone else follows them, every rule becomes a potential headache.

There is a reason why hardly any German person speaks of "unsere (Bundes-)Regierung" [our (federal) government], but nearly always about "die (Bundes-)Regierung" [the (federal) government] [1]. Indeed, the federal government is something that many Germans rather think of something like a catastrophic natural force than something where you have any sense of belonging. To further prove my point: what US-American jokes are about lawyers are jokes about politicians in Germany.

[1] That the German article "die" is a quite different verb in English makes this even nicer: if you know a little bit of English, you immediately think of "die, (federal) government", when you talk in German of "die Bundesregierung".

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