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Comment by xp84 | Hacker News Reader

Seems like a good place to also mourn the canonical best iPhone financing method - the blissfully simple Apple Card payment plan. They got rid of it[1] (except if you're engaging in the postpaid carrier contract foolishness) in 2023, which coincidentally was the last time I felt the need to get a new iPhone.

I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision, given that the phone "deals" are rarely even much of a subsidy as opposed to a financing scheme that acts as a contract, and the plans cost about triple what I pay every month, for fewer features and equivalent at best priority and speeds.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/15/apple-card-financing-sim-free...

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I'm on Verizon postpaid, 4 lines on Unlimited Plus for $31/line. That's hard to beat pre-paid for comparable service. Yes, I have to threaten to leave Verizon once a year to get them to add a bunch of customer loyalty discounts, but that's not less work than switching pre-paid carriers to chase deals.

I subscribe to /r/NoContract/ so I have a pretty good idea what's out there.

Visible+ is a comparable pre-paid plan, it's $29/mo but that's a teaser rate and to keep it past one year, you'd have to port out and port back in for whatever deal they have in one year. The normal price is $35/mo, so I'm beating that. (Visible would also mean managing 4 separate accounts since they have no multi-line plans.)

Total Wireless is a bit cheaper ($26/mo) but I keep reading terrifying customer service issues with them including most recently losing number during the porting process.

Aside, I briefly used US Mobile earlier this year to port a VoIP line to Google Voice (GV will only port-in mobile numbers). US Mobile's customer service is exceptional. Would recommend them heartily for pre-paid service. But they don't currently beat what I'm getting from Verizon post-paid. I'd consider them if I can't keep my loyalty discounts next year.

It should be noted that with Visible+ after the $29/mo promotional rate ends in 12 months and it goes to the regular $35/mo you could switch to the annual plan. That's $375/year, equivalent to $31.25/mo if we ignore the time value of money.

Another thing to note about Visible+ is that if you have an Apple Watch with cellular and want to use that with your plan there is absolutely no reason to consider Visible+.

Watch support can be added for $10/mo but that brings the total to the same as their highest level plan, Visible+ Pro, which includes watch support. That plan is $45/mo $450/year ($37.50/mo) and promotional discounts run out.

As far as I was able to tell, Visible+ Pro is the best or very close to the best deal for people who want Apple Watch support in the US and only want one line. You can get lower prices per line on postpaid plans with multiple lines but if you will only have one the postpaid plans are ridiculous (even before you add in watch support).

Metro By T-Mobile works well, if you navigate through the website to find the $25/month ($30 without autopay or for the first month) postpaid unlimited plan. It is a T-Moblie MVNO.

It is hard to get eSIM to work, but they have good customer service (but you need accses to a phone to call them, so you should try something like textnow or Google Voice) which helped my friend set it up.

It is not a intruductory offers, AFIK.

> 4 lines on Unlimited Plus for $31/line.

Important: Does this include taxes and the many "regulatory offset fees" or whatever they call them? My numbers do include everything.

Looks like that plan[1] offers 30GB of mobile hotspot. I get 50GB.

The Unlimited Plus throttles video by default to either 480p, unless you're in a UWB (mmWave?) tower you get 720p. You can get "up to 720p" even on "plain" 5G by adjusting a setting though. My plan does the same default as well, but when I adjust a setting, I get unthrottled video.

You get 50% off a data plan for a watch, which looks like is a $10 plan? So $5 add-on for a watch. My plan includes a watch for free.

It doesn't look like you get international roaming with Unlimited Plus. I get 20GB of roaming in 125 countries in my plan. I've used it, it works great.

And to get the rate you're talking about, you have to buy 4 lines. No problem for you, but it's notable that singletons pay $80 (with autopay) for that plan. Mine is $32.50 since I pay annually (actually it was less because I paid during a sale, but I don't want to make claims that aren't easily available anytime). I don't have to ever call and threaten them to stay at $32.50 because that's the full price.

Anyway, that's US Mobile as you may have guessed - and that's their best, Unlimited Premium plan.

Oh, I also pay an extra $10 a month to add a second eSim on a different network, a feature they offer. It uses your same allowances (for me, hotspot is the only thing that's metered anyway) but means that I can hop between AT&T and Verizon towers at will. You can also just port your main line to a different network at any time, if you just decide that you want to. They support all three US networks.

[1] https://www.verizon.com/support/unlimited-plus-faqs/

> Important: Does this include taxes and the many "regulatory offset fees" or whatever they call them? My numbers do include everything.

Yes. Breakdown per line:

    UNLIMITED PLUS $55
    Auto Pay & paper-free discount -$10
    LOYAL $20 FOR 12 MO -$20
    Surcharges $4.57
    Taxes & gov fees $1.48
    Total $31.05
    Verizon dollars -$0.30

I realize that there are pre-paid plans out there with various options some people find essential like Apple Watch or Hotspot or International roaming or whatever. I don't need any of that. You asked why anyone would choose post paid. For me it's because the pre-paid options aren't better for my needs and not really any cheaper.

FWIW, for years I was a Verizon employee and had a 50% discount which is why I started post-paid. They also have the best service in my area. I'm no longer an employee so they treat me like any other customer and I'd pay full price but for the loyalty discounts.

But you don't need to be a former employee to get those. You just need to haggle with customer service once a year. Some years all I have to do is unlock the line and ask for the porting code and they immediately text me a discount.

That's a really good price for a big 3 contract, but with US Mobile's $32.50/mo (prepaid 1yr price)

- there's much better international roaming: free up to 20GB/mo

- you can switch you network to any of the big 3 if you need to. e.g. if you're traveling and your preferred network is crap

- you can do dual-network for another 7.50/mo and turn it off/on as you like

I've been on this plan for almost a year now and it's take a lot to lure me back. The international roaming alone has probably saved us ~$300 in that time.

Visible has a family/friends plan - called "Inner Circle" - that comes with a $5/month discount on the Visible+ or Pro plans, and allows one account to pay for all the others.

Ah, cool, looks like they added that about a year ago. I hadn't looked at Visible recently. But Inner Circle just brings Visible+ down to the same price I'm already paying Verizon ($30/mo/line) since it doesn't stack with other promos and doesn't combine with an annual plan. And I'd still have to setup four separate accounts, I could just pay them all in one place.

Still, thanks for pointing it out.

My internet provider (Spectrum) is a Verizon MVNO and is cheaper than that. I’ve got two lines and a watch add on for $70/mo, and I don’t even have their internet service anymore because I switched to a better fiber to the door provider.

I check with people that come around or in random stores if they can beat it, alas they cannot.

Apple card installment isn't allowed on EPP stores, right? And you lose credit card extended warranty coverage, which is worth 5% of purchase price easily.

> I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why.

Two reasons: data caps and device cost.

People want iPhones but they cost $1000 outright which isn't a small amount of cash these days so they roll the cost of the device into their monthly bill. The average consumer also doesn't understand how mobile data versus 802.11 works - their kid doesn't activate Wi-Fi on their phone or download anything, they see a large number with "GB" on the end, and they pay whatever is necessary to keep the Instagram scrolling and Disney+ flowing.

Buying an iPhone outright, flipping the old one every few years (they hold their value well) and using a $30 a month 10GB plan is doable if you have money and are savvy enough to download podcasts and use your home's AP for data.

Carriers certainly aren't incentivized to educate consumers better since they'd rather make money on device installments and milk them for hundreds of dollars a month because they "have a large family and need a lot of data". Home broadband marketing is even worse - why a family of four "needs" 500 Mbps down is absolutely beyond me. In an ideal society this type of consumer literacy would be taught in school but I'm not holding my breath.

There's no need to settle for a measly $10GB plan for that kind of money. Mine costs $32.50 and includes unlimited data (actually not deprioritized, too) and 50GB of hotspot.

If you really can settle for 10GB though, you could do it for even less.

I can see how some people feel like the phone financing is something they need if they have cash flow problems and trouble accessing credit, but boy do those postpaid carriers make you pay for it, both in the payments themselves, AND in the plan itself costing more than twice as much what I pay even if you've finished paying off your phone payments.

Do family plans require them to be postpaid?

The 0% financing fine print is as follows:

> Financing available to qualified customers, subject to credit approval and credit limit, and requires you to select Citizens One Apple iPhone Payments or Apple Card Monthly Installments (ACMI) as your payment type at checkout at Apple. In order to buy an iPhone with ACMI, you must select one of the following carriers (but you cannot use a prepaid carrier plan): AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon. An iPhone purchased with ACMI is always unlocked, so you can switch carriers at any time, subject to your carrier’s terms.

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