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Comment by ktm5j | Hacker News Reader

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I don’t think any woman who seeks an abortion, is unaware that it will kill the foetus. Having to listen to the heartbeat seems performative IMO.

The heartbeat develops in weeks 5-6 and can be heard from around week 10. You can have a legal abortion in Italy until 90 days/~13 weeks.

AFAIK it’s 14 weeks in France and Spain, 18 weeks in Denmark and Sweden, 22 in NL etc. just for some context.

I think you're over estimating how self-aware a lot of people are.

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean.

Self-aware with regards to what? Can you please elaborate?

Thinking about what they're doing and what those things mean.. some people just do what they want without putting a lot of thought into anything. We shouldn't make it easy for that type of person to hide from what they're doing.

Friendly reminder that at the 6th week, when the heartbeat is detectable, the body is still undecided whether it will keep the fetus. It's not an indicator of anything - just something we're emotionally attached to as humans.

20-25% otherwise healthy pregnancies end spontaneously before the 12th week and it's a mechanism used in non-surgical abortion.

At the 8th week my SO's gynecologist made an offhand remark not to get attached just yet, because we were still within the window where that happens.

What does that matter? You're the one making the decision, not nature. Personally I would give anything to be able to have a child, so honestly I don't understand why anyone would want to terminate a pregnancy. I'm willing to admit that people's lives are complicated and it's not my place to make that decision for others, but we shouldn't help people hide from what they're doing.

> but I also think that it's a good idea to know what you're doing

Why do so many people say this about women and their bodies? You seriously think the vast majority of women considering an abortion haven’t given it much thought? Should they all have to face more obstructions and guilt trips and patronizing lectures because a handful maybe don’t? It’s ridiculous.

As for the “heartbeat” standard, I’m not getting in to it, suffice to say that should not be a bar here for deciding a woman’s rights.

> I stand by this comment, downvote all you like folks.

I wasn’t going to until this part of your comment.

They are just applying the same logic behind all prescription medication to abortion pills.

To this day, despite having taken them for the past 30 years, I still require a new prescription for Adderall because society deemed the addiction risk too high to avoid inserting a doctor into the equation every 30 days.

Abortifacients can cause the death of the person taking them. That’s something no one wants.

Can some people manage the risks of prescription medication on their own? Yes, but like with Adderall, society tends to lean towards caution and considers a doctor’s visit to be morally neutral as doctors aren’t expected to moralize and guilt but perform a medical service.

Personally, I think a doctor who guilts someone over medication should have their license revoked. There’s a time and place for such feelings but medical interventions are life and death.

He is talking about abortion writ large, not the relative risk of a specific medication. He’s even making an appeal to the “heart beat rule.”

When writing my comment, I did think to myself that the commenter might be biased, but it was borderline.

So I deliberately chose to steel-man the argument.

They are of course free to destroy their credibility and end civil discussion, but I didn't want to do it for them.

> So I deliberately chose to steel-man the argument.

Please don’t do that. This isn’t a debate team sparring session.

I was under the impression that on HN you were obligated to assume the best possible argument, instead of the worst.

Am I wrong?

And by the way, men are allowed to have opinions about abortion. You can't just play the woman card and act like that changes anything men might have to say.

I am a woman. And I only said that last part because I'm sick of seeing the internet hide contrary opinions just because they don't want to hear something.

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