– "Does collagen supplementation empirically work?"
- "Can you help me figure out how to calculate and generate Kaplan-Meier curve?"
– "Why do rabbits reproduce so frequently?"
— "Can you tell me how collagen peptides are absorbed by my digestive tract and the role they play? Can you teach me [edit: how] this works at the biomolecular level?"“Rabbit sex, how?”
But isn't it more ridiculous that some company decided that the correct answer to such innocent and curious question is basically "That knowledge is too dangerous, you shouldn't ask that."?
Why would nature encode such a ridiculously disproportionate / inefficient behavior when it leads to catastrophe so frequently?
I've tried to ask these machines dumber questions like, why castles? And... well I'm working on a few projects (mostly by hand) that they've helped with! :)
I like to ask dumb questions. It's fun. I encourage it.
I am all for this strategy, and revisiting my list is equal parts fun and conducive to long-term recall.
https://martin-perscheid.de/image/cartoon/3212.gif
("How do you reliably put an American out-of-combat.")
But the same vibe is felt outside the USA anyway (the uk came close to that attitude with declarations from starmer earlier this year).
Fable understood it as something along the lines of:
"introducing" "security risk" "using software" to "unlock door" YOU ARE FLAGGED
The dumbfuck bouncer Anthropic put in front of Fable decided this.
Fable is a PR model. It’s great. But if it were an employee, it would be the brilliant one who regularly shows up to work high. Not useless. But not reliable.
Yeah, Fable is Anthropic's Cybertruck.
The current state of guardrails seems to be entirely about marketing to investors at the cost of customers. I’m switching to open models when my subscription expires. Almost everyone I know, including those with access to Mythos, plan the same at the earliest opportunity. (Or until one of the SOTA models leaks.)
Pretty much everyone I know who uses Claude and works on anything with any level of detail has gotten false-positive flagged
I got flagged for coding in WebAssembly Text, for chrissakes LOL #haX0r
And honestly, Codex handles this better. It says "Things are going to go a little slower because we must perform additional checks on this. Is that OK?" and your only inconvenience is waiting a little longer.
Fable meanwhile just unceremoniously dumps you right into Opus without asking anything, it just tells you "you're in Opus now, sorryyyy!" Lame.
It does require some brainwashing of the model to get it to the state where model itself agrees to do RE work though. But at least it's all predictable.
I usually just start by preloadig context with plausible legitimate use, have it work and obviously fail, and then ask to figure it out without ever mentioning any high risk words. Model offers to RE itself and classifiers are happy.
> Why this chat was flagged This model has safety measures that flag specific phrases. This can happen to safe, normal chats.
> Your message itself appears to be what’s triggering the safety check. Editing it and retrying may help.
Being a researcher somewhat connected to chemistry and biology, Fable has been the most useless model I have ever tried. Essentially all work has instantly downgraded to Opus.
> while the cost of allowing "how do I synthesize the Spanish flu" is approximately infinite
I've heard this sentiment repeated elsewhere, but why? What makes you think that's the case?Under this rationale, every serious HS textbook has "approximately infinite" risk. That's clearly not so. Why is this any special?
You are comparing wet work in a lab to writing code on a computer.
When you screw up an exploit, you fail to execute the exploit. Famously, just like software's near zero marginal cost of distribution, the marginal cost of failure is nearly zero.
You can screw up an infinite number of times on your way to a successful exploit.
If you screw up with lethal agents in a lab? You die.
Here's a non-exhaustive list,
Dora Lush died after accidentally pricking her finger with a needle containing lethal scrub typhus while attempting to develop a vaccine for the disease
A 23-year-old laboratory assistant at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, was infected with smallpox after observing the harvesting of live smallpox virus from eggs without isolation cabinets at that time. The assistant was hospitalised and before being isolated, she infected two visitors to a patient in an adjacent bed, both of whom died. They in turn infected a nurse, who survived
Ebola laboratory infection by the accidental stick of contaminated needle in the United Kingdom
Researcher Nikolai Ustinov was lethally infected with the Marburg virus after accidentally pricking himself with a syringe used for inoculation of guinea pigs. The accident occurred at the Scientific-Production Association "Vektor" (today the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology "Vektor") in Koltsovo, USSR (today Russia).
"lethally infected with the Marburg virus after accidentally pricking himself"Anything lethal enough to kill other humans is lethal enough to kill you.
And if you don't know what you're doing — and for this argument you're saying this person has to ask a LLM "how do I spanish flu?" then they definitely don't know what they're doing, the number of ways you will die far outnumber the ways you can succeed.
And this, of course, doesn't even cover the cost of equipment, the precursors, sourcing the highly specific materials needed, then setting the equipment up... etc.
The same is true for the Bosch-Haber / Haber-Bosch process, which famously made WW1 possible. Every HS'er learns about the process and the steps. Steps that were classified once upon a time and were the subject of negotiation at the Versailles.
Does that mean a HS'er (or any adult) can set up an experiment that works at 177 times the pressure of the Earth's atmosphere to do anything at any scale without significant infrastructure and help?
The people who can do this are domain experts, and they've been able to do this with COTS stuff since the 1990s, at the very least, for a price of around $2M – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Bacchus . And those people don't need a LLM to tell them what to do. In fact, they're the exact people who'll have access to unrestricted versions of these LLMs.
And from a security perspective, I would bet good money that flooding the FBI's tip line with junk about every teenager trying to learn "what be a mitochondria" does more harm to the effort of finding people who could be planning such a thing than it helps. It takes more resources to go through the mass of false negatives that have now been created as matter of policy.
These experiments have been run. The fictional scenario of someone learning how bioweapons work and conjuring up a plague isn't real and it hurts humanity as a whole to impede the sciences over it.
Because what someone can flail around in / do is learn about immunology / try to "cure cancer" with a LLM and hopefully get started on a long career in medicine. Or, a discovery that matters.
Because in those cases, if and when they do end up at a lab, screwing up doesn't mean death. Just tons of wasted time (and money). And they will fail / screw up. Just look at literally every undergrad in any lab and the expensive messes they create.
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And last, but not least, yes. Teenage hackers have been a meme for decades.
Second, in your argumentation you assume that the experiments are extremely difficult or costly. Thankfully, so far, it seems to be the case that they are too difficult (either due to domain knowledge, or to difficulty of obtaining the necessary components/equipment).
But there is no clear reason to think it will remain this way (e.g. crispr allows for genetic engineering which is very cheap). And it appears that, for domain knowledge, capable LLMs are rapidly reducing that barrier. We are not there yet of course, but I think it is crazy to dismiss these concerns, which are very real and crucially are NOT just brought up by the big labs.
Correct, there is a small number of people who have been able to do it at high cost for a long time.
Now, there is an ever-growing number of people who are able to do it at an ever-falling cost.
That's the entire issue. Do you dispute that this is what's happening?
> I would bet good money that flooding the FBI's tip line with junk about every teenager trying to learn "what be a mitochondria" does more harm
Did someone propose doing that? Or is this a strawman?
Citation needed. Where are these home biolabs? Why haven't any leaked yet like home meth labs?
In any case, the "home biolab" required to do this stuff gets smaller and more accessible every day. Biochemistry, like virtually every other complex procedural field, has become heavily outsourced. You can literally order genetic fragments even of known pathogens on the Internet, shipped to your door. There should obviously be much more aggressive restrictions on manufacturing known pathogen fragments, but 1) every money-hungry lab would need to volunteer to participate, and 2) it's totally unclear how they'd detect novel pathogen fragments that unsafe AI would be happy to help predict a couple thousand of.
Today, composing that into a working virus might require an undergrad biochem education, a hundred grand, and a bunch of patience (and risk), but that describes millions of people. As GP pointed out, it wasn't too long ago the group of people with this capability was fewer than a dozen individuals on the planet. And as is obvious, we are trending in one direction. We are not trending the other direction.
Either that or everyone is indeed talking across each other and talking about different things.
Me: "I got this crash in production, looks like a segfault, let's try to fix it. Here are some functions that might be responsible."
Fable: "No. This is cybersecurity, blah blah, I won't help you"
I forgot how I got it to fix the bug eventually. I think I convinced it that it wrote the code and made a mistake. But it was definitely a "Hmm, may be I should use another model" moment".
“Hey Kimi, penetration test my app,” doesn’t get me a refusal, a guardrail, or anything like that. It gets me a pen-test result.
Something between single-cell work and advanced nonlinear DR methods (perhaps used in alignment work?) it always flags me
I'm just a dev, but I appreciate the insights from other professionals.
Asking Fable 5 "Why did the chicken cross the road" results in switching back to Opus 4.8. I'm not joking, it really censors that, and I'm not alone in the result.
The memory aspect means that your prior work has a huge impact on what gets censored.
I've been saying this a lot lately, but it doesn't bites you until it bites you.
The more you use the clanker as a general purpose fix-it tool (goodbye manual NeoVim configuration, you will not be missed!), the more you will find yourself bumping into these safeguards.
They were able to solve coding, but not what a real danger is.
Claude was utterly useless in my attempts to write a paper about this. Wouldn't even help me search for sources. I guess you'd be asking the same questions if you wanted to develop a pathogen that could reliably evade the immune system.
Why is Anthropic is so hell-bent on this auto/silent downgrade? Do they have a single user who prefers an auto-lobotomization instead of a refusal? Have they learned nothing from the backlash the first time?
Oh but then you said you never pay Anthropic so you haven’t actually used Claude Code yet. Why would anyone listen to the opinion of a non-user?
"You aren't repeatedly slamming your head against the wall. Why would anyone listen to the opinion of a non-wall-head-slammer about the merits of wall-head-slamming?"
Where do you think the principle came from? I've used claude code for a year, and stopped February this year.
I have done this task with Opus 4.5, Opus 4.6, Opus 4.7, Opus 4.8 and Fable, without issues.
I have done this task with Codex 5.4, Codex 5.5, and Sol 5.6 without issues.
Opus 5 is too cautious to be productive for me. It needs more tuning.