Hacker News Reader

Comment by TeMPOraL | Hacker News Reader

> Major password managers don’t even allow you to export your passkeys to a file that you can read/backup yourself

That's a red flag to me. It's enough that phone backup systems go out of their way to prevent you from accessing your own data, too, for unexplained "sekhurity" reasons.

> P.S. It's past time to move off of LastPass. LastPass lost all of your passwords again last month, just like they did in 2022. The most similar service is 1Password. If you like LastPass, you'll like 1Password about the same, but 1Password hasn't had multiple terrible security breaches.

That's the most annoying thing about password managers, and a major reason I still don't use them: there exists no password manager that is cross-platform (desktop/mobile in particular), local-first, and isn't sketchy or enshittified or otherwise on HN's current "don't use it, use <whatever> instead" list.

For core security tool class, that doesn't inspire confidence.

View on HN

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, and 1Password don’t let you export passkeys to a file that you can read and backup, but Bitwarden, Proton Pass, and KeepassXC do.

I think Bitwarden is on HN's current happy list. (I just use Apple iCloud myself.)

Allowing passkeys to be exported to a plaintext file undermines the phishing protections, at least somewhat. It’s possible to trick you into exporting your passkeys from Bitwarden and sending the file to an attacker.

The major password managers say that this is the reason they don’t allow exporting passkeys, and it’s not false, but they’re also making it harder to switch password managers, which may be their ulterior motive. (You can’t even import those exported passkey files into any of the major password managers, which they would be incentivized to do, if those smaller players had significant marketshare.)

It’s up to you to decide whether protecting yourself from being tricked into exporting your passkeys is worth sacrificing your ability to read them.

I’ve relied on iCloud as well, but just learned that it allows apps to store persistent data. This data is synced between all devices, and there’s no way for you to view or manage/delete it. Even determining which apps do this requires you to enumerate the apps entitlements, which is nontrivial. And so an app you install on your iPhone can have configuration or credentials persist to each iCloud-connected device, and you have no control over it. This is certainly convenient, if that’s the behavior you want; if not, there’s no visibility or control.

Is this different from the per-app enumeration in Account —> iCloud —> Storage? That provides a means to delete per app

Does it provide a way to edit or at least view it?

Depends on what qualifies as a password "manager", but I've been using pass (https://www.passwordstore.org/) for years on multiple desktops, and have recently added iOS app sepass to my setup (https://sepass.modiot.com/).

Quite complicated to get it all setup (definitely not for non-technical users), but both are GPL and I now have all my passwords available with hardware protection (yubikey on desktop, secure enclave on iOS) in all locations.

It doesn't even have to be something as bare-bones as pass. You can have a full-fledged password manager that is open-source and local-first. KeepassXC (and the OG Keepass) were always OSS and local-first. The original version of Keepass 1.0 for Windows was released long before Lastpass or 1Password[1], so we had an open-source local-first password manager before we had commercial cloud-based managers.

[1] To be more accurate, although it was always proprietary, 1Password was also local-only at first, with syncing only supported by putting it on something like Dropbox. They only added native cloud syncing later and eventually made it cloud-first.

> That's the most annoying thing about password managers, and a major reason I still don't use them: there exists no password manager that is cross-platform (desktop/mobile in particular), local-first, and isn't sketchy or enshittified or otherwise on HN's current "don't use it, use <whatever> instead" list.

I had the same frustration, I ended up with Keepass, the store is a open spec db[0] that has several clients, I use it across windows, android, and Linux without any issue and just sync with your favorite file sync tool.

0 - https://keepass.info/help/kb/kdbx.html

I've used pwsafe for years now. I think it checks off all your boxes. Works on desktop and mobile. Local-first but allows cloud if you really want to. No ads or enshittification. Bonus: Open Source. Other Bonus: Not owned by BigTech or LittleTechThatValuesMonetizationOverSecurity

Reply on news.ycombinator.com