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Comment by maelito | Hacker News Reader

Is Kagi still using Russian government owned tech (Yandex) that censors informations about the illegal Ukraine war crimes ?

If so, even if I do agree with your claims about the need to avoid ads so that the user is not the product, I believe there's a double standard in action here.

I really liked the product before having to cancel my subscription for this reason.

Now I'm stuck with boring Qwant and Ecosia...

Well hopefully Oursie.com based on Staan with a subscription system will be a good alternative soon.

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As a Ukrainian user of Kagi, their partnership with Yandex is unfortunate, since they are indirectly funding the war, but at the same time I can totally see why it makes sense for the service they're providing

With a service like that you want as much diversification as possible, since western search engines can get heavily censored too. Even if they aren't as censored right now, this might change at any moment with us not even noticing it

For example, right now Yandex tends to be much more lenient to piracy, since it's basically legal in Russia

Make no mistake, western search is censored probably more so than eastern search.

*EDIT* All you need to do is look at how DMCA is handled… TikTok… Instagram… Facebook… Google…

Yandex is only for image search. Implementing a "I don't want to fund Yandex" option would solve the problem for customers trying not to fund this war.

This would even lower the cost of the user's actions.

Not doing so is a strong take.

EU countries are also funding the war. Which EU-hosted services could we make optional in Kagi, if any?

You mean funding the war to repel the clear, unambiguous aggressor ? Yes.

I agree whole heatedly with severing ties with Yandex, but no, Europe still continues to funnel billions of Euros to Russia; €5.57B in goods (plus €7.81B in exports) and €3.63B in energy[0] in Q1 2026.

[0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

> For example, right now Yandex tends to be much more lenient to piracy, since it's basically legal in Russia

Likely because most of the pirated content is western and therefor both inconsequential and a way to thumb their noses at the "west."

> that censors informations about the illegal Ukraine war crimes

If your concern is specifically about the censorship, then it's not an issue with Kagi, since Yandex is used as one of many sources (and mainly for images afaik)

They should simply stop using any russian tech at this time.

For what reason? It's a source, not THE source

Have you followed the news?

How the US is attempting to flatten Iran and everyone is boycotting US products?

Maybe we are getting wiser to 'country bogeymen bad' stories and realizing that only bad people do bad things.

Why are you trying to divert the topic?

You don't think the genocide in Ukraine has enough scale of a tragedy, with more than 2 million casualties since 2022? Isn't this enough to flag a product?

The Ukrainians posed no threat to anyone, they didn't have a nuclear program, in fact they surrendered the third largest nuclear stockpile and one of the signatures of the memorandum is trying to delete Ukraine.

Why are you trying to dilute this event which is directly related to the topic?

Is it to try to normalize the crime of genocide in Ukraine?

Because your argument suffers the fallacy of proving too much. You're trying to say that all Russian technology must be boycotted because it does a war, but your argument also says American technology must be boycotted, Chinese technology must be boycotted and European technology must be boycotted. No transistors for anyone who subscribes to your argument!

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/G5eMM3Wp3hbCuKKPE/proving-to...

No, it's simpler than that - there's an ongoing genocide in Ukraine, a country that was at peace and posed threat to no one.

The guys that surrendered their nukes in exchange for security, right?

What I'm saying is that anything that helps prolong this war should be avoided.

It's not a fallacy, it's actually common sense.

You're again trying to dilute the genocide by bringing USA, China, etc.

So why are you trying to normalize one event, by diluting it among other events that have no relationship whatsoever with it?

Why is the Ukraine war the only war that matters? Shouldn't we also stop helping prolong the Iran war? I'm not diluting one event - I'm saying we need to care about all wars.

It matters within the context of this comment thread about a company using assets from specific state commiting genocide that had caused more than 2 million casualties in 4 years.

We're talking about cities razed to the ground, more than a thousand medical facilities destroyed, and of course the systematic and deliberate attempt destruction of a culture - just because they wanted to be a sovereign democracy.

I don't know if you wrote this comment about the US or Russia, which proves my point.

>Why is the Ukraine war the only war that matters? Shouldn't we also stop helping prolong the Iran war? I'm not diluting one event - I'm saying we need to care about all wars.

Nicely stated.

> No, it's simpler than that - there's an ongoing genocide in Ukraine, a country that was at peace and posed threat to no one.

Cherry picking the facts or blinded by your own beliefs? There was conflict for years prior to the announcement of Russia's involvement on the world stage[0].

0 https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-c...

Wouldn't that be censorship, too?

You’re not allowed to ask that question.

I don't really see any difference between this and the vast amounts of of Alaska pollock or cod that is imported from Russia.

The difference is information manipulation, like misinformation.

While there should be a complete sanction of Russian products, cod is cod, it's a consumable that has to follow public health standards.

There's no such thing for information, and for many years the Russian state has been trying hard at it.

Yes, because that never happens in America. Only Russia does that. No one else.

Well the last time the US committed genocide of a culture was way before any tech company was founded, while Russia is doing it since 2022 - by their own admission.

If we count of course the illegal annexation of territory, one of the most egregious crimes against sovereignty, it's been doing it since the occupation of Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine in 2014, you get the idea.

What I don't understand is why you're trying to divert the attention to the US, the topic regarding the current crimes against humanity and war crimes of Russia have enough merits to be a topic on its own.

I think you need to research US foreign policy. They are literally trying to do that with Iran. They helped Israel do it to the Palestinians. Not to take away from the Ukraine atrocities but US is just as bad as Russia.

> "not trying to take away from Ukraine atrocities but making an effort to try to take away from Ukraine atrocities"

Right.

What a strawman

The strawman of someone telling to do research of the US commiting genocide in Iran?

It's not a serious comment, again trying to split the topic.

The US is trying to commit genocide of at least two cultures literally right now.

Should they also stop using American tech because of the vast list of American war crimes?

I mean yes, there's an enormous movement to diversify away from american tech currently in the EU, and a massive amount of investment to get away from the entire american tech bubble

I have no idea why you're phrasing this like this when so much money is being put into solving precisely this problem right now

> have no idea why you're phrasing this like this

Because Kagi is in California.

Do we live in Ecotopia ? Did I miss the news ? Hopefully yes.

Well there are millions of European trying to avoid US tech. It's hard. A lot harder than Russian tech.

As for the comparison, I don't think it's fair. The US has not yet invaded its neighbor, Canada, leading to millions of deaths and heavy casualties. Let's not adopt your binary view on this matter.

So it's ok if they invade far-away countries, napalm bomb them leading to millions of casualties, but not ok to invade neighboring countries?

The US is responsible for far more pain and suffering in my nock of the world, so it's funny when Americans act like they have some sort of moral high ground.

Whoa! You don't know where they are from. Given time zones, it's likely they are from Europe

Or very far eastern Canada :D

The US has at least led the longest window of relative peace in the world. Might seem worse or the same to you if you're in one of the flashpoints, but for Europeans they've been reasonable hegemons until recently.

Russia has no such redeeming qualities, as far as I can tell they've always been extractive expansionist assholes like all previous empires. The only reason you might not despise them is that they might not be active in your area, as their ability to project force has always been pathetic. In Eastern Europe they're roughly Satan, and have been for at least a century.

Indeed, the comparison isnt fair. The US is complicit in a genocide recognised by the UN and many of the US's own allies.

They have only threatened to do that, yes

>As for the comparison, I don't think it's fair. The US has not yet invaded its neighbor, Canada, leading to millions of deaths and heavy casualties. Let's not adopt your binary view on this matter.

No, just bombed, invaded, overthrew governments, etc in dozens of countries all around the world...

Yet not annexed anyone so far (seems like US today is another case).

Given that we talk about mostly white European settlers, just the huge majority of native american lands, a good chunk of Mexico, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and several smaller places, areas controlled as "banana republics", Phillipines, and who knows, eventually Greenland, and even talk about Canada, unserious as it likely is.

And with no own ethnic population there to begin with or continuous historical ties to the area.

The US invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Syria, Latin America etc.

The list is too long. So here's a link showing the list of invasions, bombings, and CIA-backed regime-change operations in other countries:

https://www.davemanuel.com/us-military-interventions-invasio...

The estimates are that the US has killed between 20 and 30 million people after WWII.

And these are just direct kills. The figure is much higher if you count indirect kills through means of economic sanctions.

Yes, I know, didn't you read the "Well there are millions of European trying to avoid US tech. It's hard. A lot harder than Russian tech." sentence above ?

You're comparing a war currently being played by Russia, destroying their own country by the way, to past wars.

I'm not saying the US didn't trigger wars and their casualties. It's of course true.

> You're comparing a war currently being played by Russia, destroying their own country by the way, to past wars.

During the past year and a half, the US has bombed Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Yemen and Mexico. It has provided free bombs to a country that has been bombing Palestine (genocide), Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iran.

It has kidnapped the leader of a country and assassinated the leader of another country.

It has pirated all oil shipments to Cuba, causing a severe crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_fuel_blocka...

Avoiding Russian tech, specifically Yandex, is also hard because Yandex is one of only three search indexes that aren't corrupted to all hell with business interests. The other ones being Marginalia and Mojeek. Of those, it's the only one that has image search.

Stop using all Russian tech for the illegal Ukraine invasion, stop using all American tech for using the illegal Iran war, stop using all Chinese tech for the Uyghur genocide, stop using all Arabian tech for their modern-day slavery, stop using all (most?) European tech for their direct support of the Palestinian Genocide...

Very few acceptable countries left, it seems. Canada, maybe?

Canada, those oppressors of the natives?

I stopped using Kagi news when I saw it has Russia Today as a source for many articles

1. Yandex is dutch controlled, the russia-related business got sold in 2024 to Russian investors.

2. Yandex was never owned by the Russian government, albeit government-related censorship happened (but so does on Twitter/Google/Meta etc as they all have to comply with local laws where they operate).

3. Kagi answers questions about Russian war crimes. You can try yourself [1]

4. There's no such thing as a legal war, the closest is a UN sanctioned peacekeeping operation.

[1] https://kagi.com/search?q=what+war+crimes+did+russia+commit+...

Not the OP, but I think 'illegal' was for 'war crimes', not 'war'.

This is naive on so many levels. Yandex is Russian government. You can't take a shit without KGB in Russia.

Only the Russian business is in hands of Russian investors since 2024.

And again, you can check that Kagi answers any query about Russia yourself.

enrico, at this point you're knowingly spreading misinformation. I corrected you in my last comment: the yandex search index is owned by the russian entity. there is no non-russian "yandex" anymore, period.

> After a short transition period following completion, YNV will cease to use the Yandex brand, which will be retained by the Target group. We expect that our International Businesses will develop their own branding going forward. We intend to seek shareholder approval to change the legal name of YNV in due course.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1513845/000151384524...

this is absolutely not true. yandex IS the russia-related business that got sold in 2024, the dutch entity (now known as "nebius group") is basically just data centers now.

Yes of course, "independant" investors that would jump by the broken window by themselves if they did criticize the Kremlin.

Yandex is russian controlled. Everything Yandex related was sold to russians

Google is US controlled. Not really seeing the difference.

Kagi is directly funding Yandex by sending search traffic to it, which then in turn funds the Russian state and war.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=kagi+yand...

The guy who started it has previously been here on HN defending Kagi's business with Yandex, and personally I think his arguments are BS. Yandex does not add any special feature or functionality that is so great they should make it obligatory to include as a default option.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44596341

is this a joke? namecheap did years ago the brave move by suspending services to russian customers. why should we support a company that seems involved in russian war affairs?

Unfortunately it appears to not be a joke, my best theory is that either the persons running it have sympathies with Russia and their war efforts, or they value the marginal gain in revenue from having Yandex integrated in some sort of ultra cut throat free market capitalism approach with no qualms or concerns about anything ethical or moral.

What about the US-initiated war in Iran?

The two comments above mine is a clear example on how mob mentality works. Albeit an impotent mob rage among anonymous internet commentators, but the exact same mentality that IRL usually escalates into violence and later into the killing of a designated victim(s).

Lies and accusations get enforced and exaggerated at every step. From purchasing services from a Russian IT company -> " involved in russian war affairs" -> "the persons running it have sympathies with Russia and their war efforts".

I really thought Europeans got this kind of mentality out of their system in the 20th century, but it's alive and well still. And there will be innocent people killed as a consequence. And people here on HN will celebrate and rejoice in that. They know they are on "the right side", and therefore have the right to do anything to anyone. Just like Mr Putin might think over on his side.

Trust me, if you've ever been to Germany and paid any attention to their politics, you'll realize they haven't learned anything from the last century.

Is it? I can't find an official source that supports that claim. Also, Yandex disinvested from Russia and split the non-Russian business into a different company. So is it Yandex or "Yandex (copy)"?

I'm not trying to defend / take a position. I just find it difficult to reason without having an official (up-to-date) source.

Trying to say that Yandex isn't a Russian company is preposterous. It's the largest search engine in Russia and runs tons of other online services that are analogous to social media and cloud things in the English and Western European language speaking world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandex

they're conflating yandex with the international entity that sold it off to russian investors (now known as "nebius group"). the entire basis of the argument is wrong.

It is https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

no it didn't. the international entity sold off the vast majority of yandex businesses and assets to russian investors, then rebranded to "nebius group". that is to say that the yandex index/api used by kagi is wholly russian-owned and has essentially doubled down on russia/its allies.

if you're curious, the dominant business retained by the international entity was their data center stuff (though yandex still operates its own cloud business in russia/elsewhere).

The non-Russian portion of the company doesn't include the search engine technology.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think this comment

> Yandex does not add any special feature or functionality that is so great they should make it obligatory to include as a default option.

kind of captures kagi's argument: that its removal would degrade search results in a not-immediately-noticeable way, particularly for certain areas of the world, which might actually be worse than a loss of a distinct add-on feature or something.

...but yeah, from my perspective, it'd be great if you could turn it off.

I feel like the advantages of cultural exchange outweights the drawbacks. Boycottes should be on the margin or they are counterproductive and bellicose.

I wish I could say that funding the US or Israel or China was better. It's not all equivalent, but pretty much every major country is supporting atrocities in one way or another, today.

I don’t know if your claims are true, misinformed, rumors.

On the censor bit all companies operate within the law of the country they are in .

They have been confirmed by the CEO of Kagi and its docs. https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

> On the censor bit all companies operate within the law of the country they are in .

Yes, that's why I don't want my money poured from Kagi to Yandex, a company owned by the state of a country that invaded its neighbour and doing war crimes.

> Yes, that's why I don't want my money poured to a company owned by the state of a country that invaded its neighbour and doing war crimes.

What makes you think Kagi is owned by the Russian state? Should we cancel all US services because the US government started the Iran war for no reason?

They obviously meant Yandex

Do you instead, want it poured to companies in the US, A country that invades other countries and bombs schools and hospitals? And is currently supporting another country ALSO engaging in war crimes abd headed by an internationally wanted criminal?

Kagi is also a company owned by the state of a country that invaded its non-neighbor and does war crimes. So is Google. Is it only bad if the countries are neighbors, or what?

Sure but whatever company you pay for in any industry will do as they are legally told eventually

Goes to the spyware in your tv to the trackers cameras in your EV

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