Hacker News Reader

Comment by ajross | Hacker News Reader

> the last 20 or so years of US/Chinese economic competition

Only with some industries, mostly electronics and light manufacturing. The rest of the history of software products doesn't look like this at all. China cloned Amazon and Meta fairly well (but only within their local/captured markets) but not Microsoft or Google and absolutely not Apple. Entertainment and culture exports are still effectively zero (like, what, three blockbuster films?) where the US, Japan and Korea define pop across the globe. Heavy industry is mixed, with decent success in consumer vehicles now but little purchase in stuff like heavy equipment or shipbuilding.

Basically it's complicated, and not really a point well suited to that kind of generalism.

View on HN

> China cloned Amazon and Meta fairly well (but only within their local/captured markets)

Americans order Chinese products from SHEIN and Aliexpress type websites.

So China did penetrate the US ecommerce market, but they are not taking on Amazon directly.

People are buying from the Chinese and reselling on Amazon, which has a good logistics network that Chinese companies can't possibly build in the USA.

> absolutely not Apple

You need to look up Oneplus to see how many people were using their devices till they announced exit from Western markets.

The Chinese Android phones are essentially replacement for a big chunk of Apple ecosystem.

If these cheap mobile devices didn't exist - Apple could possibly be selling many more devices.

> China cloned .... Meta fairly well

TikTok is giving Meta a run for their money in USA.

They had to be restricted via threat of regulation to offload stake in TikTok USA.

> Microsoft

They didn't compete with Microsoft directly as entering Western Enterprise market is hard for the Chinese. Even Google can't beat Microsoft there till now.

“You need to look up Oneplus to see how many people were using their devices till they announced exit from Western markets.”

The final part of this sentence shows why there is absolutely no need to look up Oneplus.

Oneplus is owned/backed by Oppo. Their other phone brands like Oppo, Realme, etc. are really popular worldwide. They removed Oneplus from some regions (e.g. EU) where some of their other brands are more popular.

I'm not sure if you are from the US, but if you are, it really gives you a distorted image of what the worldwide smarphone market is like.

E.g. in many European countries, it is 1/3 iPhone, 1/3 Samsung, 1/3 others (which are mostly Chinese brands).

Seems like you are not aware of the situation.

To get a better idea on the topic that you commented on and views of members of HN

You can read comments on this post - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48932539

Not British, but taking UK out of the definition of pop, is a bit too rough a cut. Also France. Look at the queues outside pop-glamorous stores. And was pop-art a pop artefact? Is TikTok redefining pop? Movies is an old measure, and even US has fallen with just franchise dominating. I think as a globe we are much more integrated and co-dependent, occasionally also in bad ways, than we appreciate.

I'm talking about economic activity more than the passports of the individual artists. And no, TikTok is a software product (a social media platform), not popular culture. There's absolutely popular culture being created and driven there but it's 100% NOT coming out of China. Are you high, as it were?

TikTok competes with Meta, not Olivia Rodrigo or BTS.

I am not high, I have kids, and can tell you they barely care about Olivia Rodrigo or BTS. You dispel passports as irrelevant for one leg but base your argument on them for the other. The contradiction is sufficient.

> Entertainment and culture exports are still effectively zero (like, what, three blockbuster films?) where the US, Japan and Korea define pop across the globe.

And this is really sad, because they have thousands of years of cultural heritage and also plenty of great films. Somehow, they've failed at exporting this completely.

Well, another way to put it is that the western markets managed to keep it out via propaganda and other soft influences on people.

> Heavy industry is mixed, with decent success in consumer vehicles now but little purchase in stuff like heavy equipment or shipbuilding

Uhh, China does over half of the world’s shipbuilding.

China is also responsible for 25% [1] of the world’s heavy equipment manufacturing and is considered to have double[2] the CAGR of the global average for heavy equipment manufacturing.

0: https://www.csis.org/analysis/china-dominates-shipbuilding-i...

1: https://www.grandviewresearch.com/horizon/outlook/constructi...

2: https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/heavy-co...

Xiaomi did a quite good job copying (and surpassing!) Apple.

They even got the car Apple always wanted, but never managed to build.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com