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Comment by elAhmo | Hacker News Reader

You fail to understand that Apple investing in China is in their best interest - and then returned back to millions of shareholders. If investing in the USA would be a better ROI, there would be no need for any measures like this to force companies somewhere.

People in favour of tariffs make it seem like the best and wealthiest economy in the world is in a bad shape, and it is completely opposite, while failing to address the inequality issue with the wealth distribution.

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You're conflating better for apple (and shareholders) with better for the country overall.

The US economy has been one of the best performing economies ever, which has been great for the country overall. Deeper economic ties with other super powers is also a pretty good at keeping the peace. While there are some specific issues, it's hard to argue it hasn't been good for the country overall.

In terms of the country's overall health I think you could argue we've sold industrial capacity for wealth, and it's too early to say if it was a good trade. Reliance on China for Rare Earth Minerals is commonly referenced, [1] but China is in general a major supplier to the DoW, which negatively hampers our ability to for example credibly deter an invasion of Taiwan. Arguably Post WWII Pax Americana, which relies on industrial capacity, has kept the peace more so than economic interdependence. For example Pre WWI Germany and the UK were each others' largest trading partner, and a conflict was argued to be economically unthinkable. [2]

It also increases the immiseration of those in the areas replaced[3], which is likely a contributor to rising populism and political instability. Most of this malaise is just hidden in places like the Rust Belt.

[1]https://www.csis.org/analysis/rare-earth-export-restrictions...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion

[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_of_despair

Best performing for whom?

If the type of prosperity you want to point to is "stock market go up," we need to talk about who owns the stocks and who doesn't.

It's been good for everyone. Quality of life in the US has risen with GDP.

"Let them eat growth!"

You say that like economic growth hasn't led to cheaper food.

We used to actually have starving people in this country, now we talk about "food insecurity".

Ah, so now the bar has fallen to "people aren't literally starving (yet)." Amazing.

Yes, "People aren't literally starving" is incredible progress for humanity. Progress which has coincided with the incredible wealth creation (not transfer, those things are different) of modern times.

Would you prefer to go back to a time were people were literally starving?

This argument, better articulated by Thomas Hobbes, would be right at home in 1651 were it was busy justifying the economic mismanagement of that time as well.

And what argument are you making? That starving is good?

No, that you should advance your thinking past the 17th century.

No, the bar has risen to "people aren't literally starving (anymore)." Amazing.

Pretty sure that's a rise of the bar, not a fall.

Not with Trump in power, most of our allies are looking for other places to do business.

You make a great case for state capitalism, comrade!

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