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Comment by bulbar | Hacker News Reader

I think you talking about refugees, not regular migration.

People who migrate need to deposit thousands of Euros, at least when they come for training in health care sector (nurse or doctor). You can also come if you have an offer from a German company or a very good outlook to get one. In any case, you are not allowed to stay if you don't work for a longer period of time.

I can't believe how many don't know about this even here.

It's basically relatively easy to stay here as a refugee, but not as easy to stay here as a skilled worker.

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> I think you talking about refugees, not regular migration.

I'm surprised I need to explain this, but refugees are also migrants. They're using one of many visa pathways.

This conversation highlights the issue with this discussion: many intersecting issues. As you point out: Europe has made it incredibly easy for refugees to immigrate (most of whom, depending on the country of origin, do not ever enter the workforce); and made it incredibly difficult for working immigrants. This is the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Unfortunately negativity towards the high crime and high unemployment immigrant populations gets conflated with working immigrants. Since politicians do not dare touch the sacred ECHR cow, they enact rules to make it harder for law-abiding immigrants.

I agree and apparently we don't even have good terms that show the difference of the two groups.

In most cases it's not possible for a refugee who's already in Germany to gain a regular residence permit without going back to their country of origin and starting the entire immigration process from scratch. All this talk about refugees not wanting to integrate, and no one mentioning that there is no point for them to integrate whatsoever, if they are going to be kicked out eventually regardless of their merit.

You get German citizenship almost automatically after 5 years in the country just by having a job and a basic understanding of the language. Even without speaking the language you can get citizenship simply by going to school here for 4 years.

> no one mentioning that there is no point for them to integrate whatsoever

There is a point: They are GUESTS here and when you are a guest in someone's house, you better act respectfully.

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