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Comment by wizzwizz4 | Hacker News Reader

Who desires the control? Can you name a member of this nebulous conspiracy? Nobody I've spoken to about this topic has been able to.

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I don’t need to know the names of the various lawmakers, lawyers, and politicians to know that they exist and to see the effects of their work. You’re being willfully blind here.

"Trust me bro, I can't point to them but they exist" is also all the evidence we have of Aliens, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Why don’t you just google ecosocialism? Read the wiki entry? Is that too difficult?

Here:

Elmar Altvater

Ian Angus

Rudolph Bahro

Adam Bandt

Hugo Blanco

Murray Bookchin

Jabari Brisport

Walt Brown

Paul Burkett

Max Chandler-Mather

Barry Commoner

Jeremy Corbyn

Pat Devine

Jutta Ditfurth

Sabrina Fernandes

John Bellamy Foster

Alberto Garzón

André Gorz

Ramachandra Guha

Donna Haraway

Howie Hawkins

Jason Hickel

Joan Herrera i Torres

Naomi Klein

Mark Carney

Joel Kovel

Dimitri Lascaris

Enrique Leff

Michael Löwy

Caroline Lucas

Andreas Malm

David McReynolds

Jean-Luc Mélenchon

Steven Guilbeault

Chico Mendes

Luka Mesec

George Monbiot

William Morris

Abdullah Öcalan

James O'Connor

David Orton

Simon Pirani

Zack Polanski

Lee Rhiannon

Raül Romeva

Manuel Sacristán

Ariel Salleh

Joan Saura

Pernille Skipper

Jill Stein

Chlöe Swarbrick

Alan Thornett

Peter Tatchell

Alex Tyrrell

Derek Wall

Raymond Williams

Gerrard Winstanley

Avi Lewis

Maybe 6 of those people hold any kind of actual government position. The rest are either not in politics, former, retired from government, or dead. So ~six people control automobile regulation worldwide and are forcing people out of cars.... Right?

You do understand that's an incomplete list of prominent eco-socialists, not literally every single believer right?

Then why didn't you provide a list of the ones who are doing "their work"? Given how many people talk about this, supposedly with hard evidence (that's never, ultimately, presented), someone must have compiled such a list, tied the individuals to the policies they've effected, mapped out their influence, the coalitions and deals… and if you believe this for good reason, then you must have had access to this proof.

On the other hand, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism#Critique_of_actu... says:

> Kovel believes that the forms of 'actually existing socialism' consisted of "public ownership of the means of production", rather than meeting "the true definition" of socialism as "a free association of producers", with the Party-State bureaucracy acting as the "alienating substitute 'public'".[130]

and in general, I cannot find any examples of eco-socialists making the claims, or holding the beliefs, you're attributing to them. Eco-socialists are not, near as I can tell, a fan of the state, nor "government ownership".

Ah yes, we can’t criticize government initiatives and policy unless we have fully mapped out the exact people responsible for every line of law, including a detailed history of all their political views, and probably what they had for breakfast.

I do prefer to criticise government initiatives that actually exist, as opposed to ones that don't. Slotting real facts into a fictional narrative is a common tool of propagandists seeking to subvert potential opposition. If you truly care about the things you're complaining about, you should want to know what's really going on.

What doesn’t exist? Was this article made up?

The stars exist. We can join them up to form constellations. This does not mean that the stars in constellations are particularly close to each other: in fact, the 50 closest stars to the sun are scattered all around the night sky, and are closer to each other than the stars of Orion's belt. Many of the stars in Draco are nowhere near each other.

Just because you can join facts together to form a narrative, that does not make the narrative true.

The narrative you've presented is not supported by the sources you've cited (e.g. the eco-socialism Wikipedia article, which appears to contradict it). You have not given me any reason to believe it, and I'm not confident that you've ever received a good reason yourself.

>Who desires the control? Can you name a member of this nebulous conspiracy?

Every level of government, the World Economic Forum and every other organization that seeks to mandate digital currencies, mandate digital IDs, impose "chat control" and eliminate all privacy. You have to have your head buried deep, deep in the sand to think this is some sort of conspiracy. It is all happening right out in the open.

Nobody I've spoken to who's name-dropped the World Economic Form in this context knows what the WEF is. (To be fair, neither did I, to begin with – but I wasn't making claims about it.)

Well I'm glad to be the first. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the WEF, which is an annual meeting of heads of state, titans of industry and other various unsavory billionaires and people with far too much power. Going back decades, a lot of the most odious totalitarian policies are hatched and disseminated there. This isn't some sort of conspiracy, most of it happens right out in the open. There are a wide variety of hour(s) long videos from these conferences about various policies they are pushing, and have pushed, going back years, as well as numerous documents laying out their plans.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_A_Blueprint_for_Digital_Id...

https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000005JJGcUAO

https://www.weforum.org/communities/digital-currency-governa...

I have familiarised myself with the WEF. It is a meeting of various "people with far too much power", as you put it – but it is not, as far as I can tell, an organisation with an agenda of populace control that those powerful people suborn themselves to.

>but it is not, as far as I can tell, an organisation with an agenda of populace control that those powerful people suborn themselves to.

They aren't suborning themselves to anyone. The organization is comprised of those powerful people, who are the ones coming up with the agenda and hoisting it upon the rest of us.

This understanding is not obviously wrong, and we have now reached the limit of my understanding. Congratulations: you do indeed appear to be the first. Thank you for rising to the challenge.

>[seeking to] mandate digital currencies, mandate digital IDs, impose "chat control" and eliminate all privacy.

None of this has anything to do with a purported green movement that seeks to end private ownership of cars. Modern cars are easy to track, for starters.

>None of this has anything to do with a purported green movement that seeks to end private ownership of cars.

Modern cars allow autonomy of movement, even if you are tracked (except of course those with the mandatory kill switches which our benevolent overlords have also ordered be installed).

So do bicycles. And bicycles don't require special fuel.

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