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Comment by bulbar | Hacker News Reader

That perspective is weird as foreign health care workers right now are the only thing that keep the health care sector from collapsing.

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An insane assumption when there are millions of immigrants in every european country lining up for every type of health care service and not contributing a cent back into it

I think you talking about refugees, not regular migration.

People who migrate need to deposit thousands of Euros, at least when they come for training in health care sector (nurse or doctor). You can also come if you have an offer from a German company or a very good outlook to get one. In any case, you are not allowed to stay if you don't work for a longer period of time.

I can't believe how many don't know about this even here.

It's basically relatively easy to stay here as a refugee, but not as easy to stay here as a skilled worker.

> I think you talking about refugees, not regular migration.

I'm surprised I need to explain this, but refugees are also migrants. They're using one of many visa pathways.

This conversation highlights the issue with this discussion: many intersecting issues. As you point out: Europe has made it incredibly easy for refugees to immigrate (most of whom, depending on the country of origin, do not ever enter the workforce); and made it incredibly difficult for working immigrants. This is the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Unfortunately negativity towards the high crime and high unemployment immigrant populations gets conflated with working immigrants. Since politicians do not dare touch the sacred ECHR cow, they enact rules to make it harder for law-abiding immigrants.

I agree and apparently we don't even have good terms that show the difference of the two groups.

In most cases it's not possible for a refugee who's already in Germany to gain a regular residence permit without going back to their country of origin and starting the entire immigration process from scratch. All this talk about refugees not wanting to integrate, and no one mentioning that there is no point for them to integrate whatsoever, if they are going to be kicked out eventually regardless of their merit.

You get German citizenship almost automatically after 5 years in the country just by having a job and a basic understanding of the language. Even without speaking the language you can get citizenship simply by going to school here for 4 years.

> no one mentioning that there is no point for them to integrate whatsoever

There is a point: They are GUESTS here and when you are a guest in someone's house, you better act respectfully.

I don't think that is really true. I think what's true is that people like private nursing care but its really expensive. Its less expensive if you have a large influx of cheap labor.

The shortage of workers in the health care sector is well established, just look at some numbers. As my wife works in health care sector, I also know that from own experience. Here colleagues and friends are mostly from within EU but also outside EU. A friend of mine from Syria just completed her training to become a neurologist. Another just finished training to become a nurse. She nearly had to move out of the country because she was on a "training visa" but finished it an wanted to start working. They wanted her to move out of Germany to apply for a work visa.

It's pure insanity. Meanwhile, many people think regular migration and coming as refugee is basically the same thing and that we don't need skilled worker to begin with. Maybe we deserve to become insignificant, but I would rather from some distance.

Of all places I never imagined finding so many AfD talking points here on HN. Trying to migrate to another country right now, because I see a grim future coming with the direction the society is going. Reading here strongly confirms my reasoning for that.

Yeah, those are different people than the ones who arrived en masse during the "refugees welcome" phase.

The healthcare workers are overwhelmingly people who migrated legally through the proper channels.

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