Hacker News Reader

Comment by wccrawford | Hacker News Reader

I did this for a while after seeing that video, but after some of my shorts ended up tightening into a knot that I couldn't get loose easily, I gave up on it.

I instead just use the "Ian Knot" that I use to tie my shoes. It's very quick, I already use it all the time anyhow, and it rarely goes wrong. (Sometimes, I think I end up with an end through a loop accidentally, and have to fix it.)

Learning this extra knot didn't really help much, and it definitely went wrong more than I liked.

View on HN

It really depends on the cordage for this one. I have a pair of gym shorts with a flat, thin band (I think it’s nylon, it’s got some slipperiness to it), and this knot works great for it. I’ve had nothing but problems trying this one on thicker, rounded cordage with more friction involved.

My results were the exact opposite with the two different types of cordage. This is definitely a finicky knot.

If you have round laces, Ian’s knot reliably comes undone. Ian’s secure shoelace knot is better in that case, though it’s slightly slower and trickier to do. The double Ian knot is interesting too, but it (and several other alternatives) won’t have the “pull just once to untie” mechanic.

Ian's knot doesn't come undone easily if you do it the right way, many people learn it incorrectly when they are young and never revisit it... but they are making Granny knots instead: https://tokay-ultimate.com/blogs/infos/how-to-tie-your-laces

It's even more noticeable/frequent with round laces so that's what makes me suspect you might be a victim of this.

You can read about why Ian made the new knot as an improvement over secure knots specifically here. [0] But hey, maybe Ian was unknowingly tying a Granny knot instead. ;)

    Comparison To Other Regular Shoelace Knots
    
    It was much easier to prove that Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot is more secure than any of the regular shoelace knots. Using a pair of shoes with round, slippery laces, I tied one with my Ian Knot and the other with my Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot. Despite tying both to approximately the same average tightness, the Ian Knot came untied two or three times a week whereas the Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot never came untied.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknottech.htm

Ian's Knot V3_FINAL_2_R1.2.

I think for most adults avoiding a granny knot is enough. But my son is not yet 10yo and he often has untied shoes at the end of the day.

I've even tried tying his shoes myself (so I know both the knots are pulled really tight, and that the loose ends are the same length as the bows). Even so, somehow the ends get pulled hard enough that they end up undone.

(Somehow for him even the Ian secure knot doesn't guarantee a full day without laces coming undone.)

Ian's knot is not new kind of knot with its own properties; it's a kind of procedure for producing the standard knot. The resulting knot doesn't remember which procedure it came from.

Sorry, I chose to use the same terminology as the comment I replied to. Should I have started with the explanation you’ve posted, would that make my comment better?

Ian Knots is a rabbit hole of great practical knots and shoe lacing styles.

couldn't find the ian knot on this app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nynix.knot...

It's here: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

You just pull the loose string end to relieve the knot? The loop just pulls out.

I think he means that if you ever accidentally tie the knot wrong, then it can end up difficult to untie.

I don't think I tied it wrong. I think it eventually just tightened up with usage and got really hard to work with.

A bit off topic, but I hate that Ian just slapped his name on a knot and people call it that. He even has a little link on there saying "Yes I'm the inventor," which, if you click on it, amounts to "trust me bro." That knot was how my father learned to tie his shoes in the 60s, so Ian must have time-traveled back after "inventing" it in '82.

It never ceases to amaze me how reliably someone always appears to “well, actually” this issue whenever Ian comes up. Despite the fact that he has merely published all this info freely on the web for like 20+ years and never attempted to monopolize knot information, nor force anyone else to acknowledge him in any way. Like, if you want to, you could call it the “Ian Sucks” knot. Why care if he calls it ‘Ian Knot’? If you liked your hotdogs a certain way and you call that an “Arijun Dog,” should people be mad at you if technically it’s a style first prepared 50 years prior in Nashville by a guy named John?

I disagree- when I googled this knot I came immediately to https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknothistory.htm where this “Ian” fellow goes to great lengths to establish himself as the inventor. Screenshot of a davinciesque yellowed inventor’s notebook and so forth.

They shouldn't be mad at you at much as dismiss you. You should admit that sticking to it and trying to make other people acknowledge it is ridiculous, a joke at best.

If you've "invented" some relatively simple combination of existing pieces, the only sensible and humble thing to do is acknowledge that you're probably not the first one.

Am I missing something here where he "tries to make" anyone do anything? Also he mentions the Ashley knot numbers, how is that not acknowledging that?

My problem with it isn't what he calls it, it's that he claims to have invented it. It would be fine if he said, "yes, other people have been using this knot for decades, but I like to call it Ian's knot."

Would it bother you if I started re-wrote the Wikipedia article on the hot dog in an attempt to convince everyone I invented it? And if people started believing that?

I read that exact preface on his site before learning and adopting it (the secure knot, specifically, but the preface is on both).

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknottech.htm

It’s great that he has that caveat, but it’s buried under the “Tech Info” tab. Meanwhile, the header says “yes -- I'm the inventor,” and there is no mention of the knots actual history in the “History” page, only how he “invented” it.

1. If you rewrote Wikipedia? Yes. If you set up your own website and said you invented the Arijun Dog? Nah, go for it. Slightly embellishing your accomplishments, in a trivial and victimless arena like hotdogs or shoelaces, is exactly the kind of confidence we should all have.

2. He says right at the very top of the article[1] that what he's claiming is his "method," not the knot which he is attributing. A pretty soft and subjective claim, like if I claimed a "method" of making a hotdog which involves singing a particular song while squirting the mustard.

[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknottech.htm

What do you think of the medical doctor Dr Tai that "invented" calculus in 1994 and called it Tai's Model?

He surely invented "Ian's Knot" (the term for it). Even if there already existed a knot tied the same way, if people didn't know it by a name, surely there's some benefit to having a name for it?

Ian's Knot is a new procedure for achieving the same configuration as a standard knot or double loop knot. The procedure involves inserting the loops into each other simultaneously. Basically, it is like a reverse unravelling.

When you pull the two string ends of a standard knot at the same time, the loop shrink and pull out of each other at the same time. Just figure out how to do that backwards and you probably have Ian's Knot or something very close.

I could see there being use for putting a name for it if there wasn't one before. You can do that without pretending you invented it, though.

If there's not a name for it though, how do you find out? Also, you can invent something without being the first.

not the ian secure knot?

I find that the Ian Knot almost never comes undone on its own for me. Shoes, shorts, whatever. It's been great for like a decade now. I haven't been motivated to find anything better.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com