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Comment by delis-thumbs-7e | Hacker News Reader

How about you instead of trying to “get away with” as little exercise as possible you found a way to move your body that you genuinely enjoy? One should not optimise away sleep, nutrition and exercise. Yes we live in a ridiculous fitness and gym boom, but weight training might not actually be a good fit to most people. I love having to psych myself to lift big amounts of steel, I’m ok with bit of pain etc. - mostly people are not. There’s thousands of sports and ways to move out there. You don’t like running, well don’t. Go dancing, hiking, play a team sport, do tai-chi, yoga, goddammit change a hobby every two months, it doesn’t matter. Just do it and do it consistently every week.

And what best helps you in that is enjoying what you do, as well as doing it with a friend.

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Have you ever heard of the motivational technique where, instead of telling themselves "I'm going for a run", people will say "I'm going to put my shoes on and see how I feel, no commitment and no pressure", and they end up nearly always going for a run anyway plus they do it more often and have more fun?

Also, have you read Dynomight's blog post[0] about how the biggest barrier to starting exercise isn't improving too slowly, it's overtraining and giving up?

This article could be seen as a way to do the minimum exercise possible. I think a better reading is that all exercise is good, you can spend five minutes on the exercise bike or do a few leg raises and push-ups, no pressure, it's still good for you, and maybe tomorrow you'll go for a run or make it to the gym.

[0] https://dynomight.net/2021/01/25/how-to-run-without-all-the-...

Yes. I ran a half-marathon few years back when I used to box actively (didn’t compete, but sparred competitors). I woke up early 3 times a week to do 5km run no matter the weather. These days I just lift heavy weights. I think I know every motivational technique there is at this point.

What matters is that you move, consistently, every week, for years, for rest of your life. I’m kinda person who wants to just lay on bed and eat potato chips drinking beer. I used to start some regime or another, always getting bored after few month. Then I just found types of sports and exercises that worked for me and company they are fun to do with, and guess what, I need almost zero motivation to lift some several thousands of kg’s of iron every week.

Consistency, intensity, motivation. Best motivation is fun, especially fun with other people.

Good for you, but that is entirely you describing your life and doesn't address the point.

Which was that, if "what matters is that you move, consistently, every week", then it's motivational to tell sedentary people that pretty much any amount of exercise will do. Once you get over the initial activation energy then exercise is easier.

It addresses the point exactly. I doscuss my experience to show I quote know what I am talking about. Any amount of exercise is pnly good for long run if you do it consistently, with enough intensity and for long time. Your 5min ab workout that you manage to keep up for two weeks is basically meaningless. 5000 steps, 15min workouts, 30min jogs, there has been plenty of this fads and no, they do not get people moving in the long term. Forcing yourself to put on running shoes every morning works up to a point when it doesn’t - you get injured, ill, meet someone, Christmas, summer vacation abroad, new job, anything. And you won’t go back, because you hated running in the first place.

What does, is getting a hobby where you move. It might be chasing butterflies or Freestyle Wrestling, doesn’t matter as long as you think it is fun.

I don’t know why you argue when I’m basically giving a cheat code how to start enjoying sports and exercising. If you enjoy something you do it more, what is here to argue?

Because there are people that don't find it enjoyable.

I like windsurf a lot, but the cost and effort make me treat it like a "for fun, occasional activity".

I do not like going to the gym, but I go 3 times per week for weight lifting and 2 times a week for HIIT (incidentally, I kinda like punching the heavy bag for 30 minutes).

Either way, I'd rather play videogames (I am very passionate indie gamer) or play board games.

All of this to say: no, don't give this advice, it doesn't work for everybody.

What worked for me is tricking my brain into thinking it's part of work. I cannot skip it, it's important, it's work for my body.

I do like all the rewards it brings,but I have to fight against my will every time.

I am 3 years in and I haven't skipped a single session, so I'd say I figured it out.

walking, walking, walking, walking

having a well-rounded diet and getting an hour of walking in daily is like 90% of the way there for good health.

(actually, proper sleep is the #1 most important thing)

And exercise helps sleep! It's an unbelievable virtuous cycle.

Unfortunately that's not necessary true. HIIT pumpd my adrenaline, I cannot sleep for 2 to 3 hours afterwards,but sometimes life forces you to go late to the gym

Not in every case. Endurance work will destroy sleep quality for 1-2 nights.

This might be good advice for people who haven't already had the rest of the living optimized out of their lives. But not everyone is so lucky...

Also, the article kind of agrees with what you're saying, even if you don't realize it. Any exercise, even if it's not organized like a weight lifting regimen might be, might be enough to keep you healthy. I think leaning into that could make exercise more genuinely enjoyable for many more people, instead of just an exercise in optimization.

I have a deep, visceral revulsion to physical effort in all its forms, with three exceptions: riding a bicycle, swimming and climbing things.

Small doses of psychedelics invert this, and I find myself running and doing push-ups and enjoying it. I have no idea how that works.

I call it dancing.

> you found a way to move your body that you genuinely enjoy?

All physical exertion causes pain and discomfort, otherwise it isn't exertion. That's not ever going to be enjoyable. Tolerable, perhaps, given focus on the goal, but few people would be willing to tolerate it.

Maybe it's a surprise to you but most people's reaction to doing exercise is "when will this end?" rather than "yayy pain and breathlessness!"

That’s why it helps to reframe the gym as training for life by making one stronger at tolerating discomfort. Showing up, consistently, even when you don’t want to, and battling through discomfort, are transferable skills throughout life and progressive training is exactly that.

>All physical exertion causes pain and discomfort, otherwise it isn't exertion.

Not really, it causes pain and discomfort only when you have fucked up your body to the point where even a small amount of exertion is over the limit. Children seek physical exertion and will do it even against orders. A 6 y.o. is running around not because he is overcoming pain for the future health benefits, he is doing it because it's enjoyable for a body that has not degraded through decades of bad habits. People spend thousands a year on running shoes or bikes or tennis rackets and club membership are not doing that to enhance their pain and suffering either.

> That's not ever going to be enjoyable. Tolerable, perhaps, given focus on the goal, but few people would be willing to tolerate it.

This is wrong in multiple ways.

For one thing, lots of people enjoy pain and discomfort caused by exercise. Some people even enjoy pain directly! There's ample evidence of this. You're painting with way too broad a brush given that there's enormous variance between people.

Secondly, there's clear evidence that many people do enjoy exercising, because gyms/parks/basketball courts/whateverl are often very busy. Are all these people just waiting for it to end? They're there voluntarily.

Exertion does not actually imply discomfort for everyone (maybe it does for you , I'm not in your body). I would argue most people dancing in a club are doing it because it's fun, not painful. Same with kids splashing in a pool, or anyone playing DDR or beat saber, etc. People have voluntarily exercised throughout history. Certainly it was easier when I was younger, and the endorphins overpowered any pain. I have to be more deliberate now in my old age but there are still plenty of non painful ways to move my body.

> All physical exertion causes pain and discomfort, otherwise it isn't exertion.

This is just ridiculous. If this is actually true to ypu, please seek medical care immediately. You might not have long left.

> All physical exertion causes pain and discomfort,

Dance. Sex. Climbing things. Playing a sport you enjoy.

Demonstrably wrong.

Some people have disabilities or physical limitations.

For those people, any kind of a generalized take on "how much you can get away with in terms of fitness" wouldn't be helpful either. They will need a way more specific advice tailored to their individual needs and physical limitations.

It is pretty obvious the grandparent comment was just attempting to give a generalized advice, without claiming that it would comprehensively apply to every single niche condition out there (and it would be rather silly to expect it to).

If you are in this situation, you should see a physical therapist.

Exercise is even more important if you have a disability, because your muscles will atrophy from disuse and cause even greater disability.

E.g. if you stop moving your leg because you have a bad knee, you will now have a bad knee and a weak leg. If you go to PT and do exercises to strengthen the muscles around the knee, it can take load off the joint and improve function.

Luckily PT is cheap and affordable and available under most us insurance plans.

Nobody claimed that.

I assume this is sarcasm? In the US, getting a medical plan to pay for physical therapy is an uphill battle akin to hiking Mt.Everest. Observed this both with my partner and parent. It's nearly impossible to achieve.

If you need prolonged therapy under most health plans I have had, costs can well exceed $100 a week in copays. and thats assuming you can get a good one and it is covered.

Wait, seriously?

I broke my arm late last year in NYC pretty badly, ended up having to get a surgery for carpal tunnel release + a titanium plate implanted.

Doctor told me I needed to do physical therapy for a few months after the surgery (which made perfect sense, because I could barely move/rotate my wrist, no finger/grip strength, and my mobility range was abysmal).

I searched for a reputable PT place nearby that was accepting new patients and that was a member of the American Society of Hand Therapists (per my doctor's recommendation), scheduled an appointment for the week after, gave them my employer's insurance info, and that was it. I never had to interact with the insurance company throughout the entire process, and they covered it just fine.

I know it is anecdotal, but out of my friends who deal with PT way more often than me (typically those who are seriously into competitive team sports), I am yet to hear of a differing experience either.

For my partner it was something like (about ten years ago so don't recall exact numbers) doctor said: you need physical theraphy every other day for three months.

Insurance said: you get four sessions total. But you can pay the rest out of pocket.

For my parent it was a bit better, they covered all the sessions but only max of 30 minutes per day. My parent at the time was in mid 80s so could not rush through it so quick, needed like an hour. Therapist was forced to leave after 30 min and leave some instructions to do the other half alone.

But hey, insurance company CxOs got some nice fat bonuses, so that's all that matters!

your experience is not everyone’s.

Well aware, thanks, hence the "I know it is anecdotal".

Nobody claimed it was.

And those limitations don't mean people can't exercise as a whole. As the list they provided explains, the goal is to find something you can do relatively consistently that gets you active. Walking even 5 minutes more than normal is an improvement for many, and you can even reach the level of sports like wheelchair rugby.

All the more reason to be more active. Everyone struggles.

Not necessarily to the same degree. Physical activity can be extremely painful with certain disabilities. In those cases, it can be useful to know how much is enough to stay healthy.

There’s even Paralympics in this world. People with disabilities do sports, although obviously it complicates things.

Those people are world class athletes. Lots of disabilities cause physical activity to be extraordinarily painful or difficult.

Obviously there is disabilities that make almost all physical activity impossible. I don’t see your point, I should have made a disclaimer ”except of course people who have amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, [list every possible disabling condition]?”

But plenty of people with very disabling conditions became those world class athletes, or live life where they use their bodies to the extent they can. I bet it is because they have found a way to move they truly love. If you do something you like doing, you do it more.

> "Lots of disabilities cause physical activity to be extraordinarily painful or difficult."

Nobody claimed otherwise.

Do these people you mention read a comment on the internet saying people should exercise more and think that comment is referring to them?

I am one of “these people.” I’m pointing out something to the gp comment that people don’t consider when they make generalizing, moralizing comments like this.

But if the comment wasn't considering you, then they weren't telling you to exercise.

Nobody is telling someone who physically can't run to run. There is no reason to interpret it this way.

You’re putting far too much into the response than is there. The point being responded to was “why optimize something like exercise?” a reason was given. It’s not as uncommon as you seem to be making it out to be.

Nobody claimed otherwise.

I do not understand this type of objection. What is the point of shooting down a reasonable recommendation (in this case exercise and having fun doing so) with a handwavy moral plight such as yours?

It truly is a bizarre spin on whataboutism.

What objection is there? Talk about “handwavy” comments there. This framing is ableist, whether intentional or not, and I was pointing out not everyone is in a situation where this is the case:

> How about you instead of trying to “get away with” as little exercise as possible you found a way to move your body that you genuinely enjoy? One should not optimise away sleep, nutrition and exercise.

Answer: because exercise can be physically very painful, impossible, or sometimes dangerous for people with certain medical conditions. Knowing how much is enough can be useful to know without being shamed for “optimizing” away exercise.

Hope that helps. Pointing out that people with different situations exist to a generalizing comment should not cause such offense, imho.

God your comments are soo horrible and toxic.

"but weight training might not actually be a good fit to most people. I"

People will eventually realize it causes cancer. Weight training literally generates inflammation.

> People will eventually realize it causes cancer. Weight training literally generates inflation.

Inflation? I don't think this comment could have better intentionally illustrated how ill-informed it is if you tried.

Lol. Sorry typo. Fixed.

Can you provide studies/sources for your claims?

The studies I've seen point to a reduce risk & mortality of diseases inclusive of cancer, not sure what you've been reading from.

I've read before that tall people get more cancer than short people, if it's relative to how many cells you have then an extra 30 kilograms of muscle might make a difference too!

Virtually no one puts on 30 kg of muscle by weight training without steroids. Certainly not by accident. Those are like college-NFL football numbers.

just raise interest rates to counteract, then

perhaps you meant inflammation

resistance training doesn't cause cancer though

I suppose that if your muscles grow rapidly, you could call that inflation of some kind? Connection to cancer still unclear though.

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