Hacker News Reader

Comment by VeejayRampay | Hacker News Reader

As usual, Northern Europe is top of the world.

This is why I enjoy the idea of a European Union. As dysfunctional as it looks right now, it still puts my homeland France together in a big bag with the likes of Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark or Norway, who regularly top the charts in terms of fight against corruption, equlity, education, citizen happiness and tons of other good metrics.

It's always nice to have that kind of example right next door.

View on HN

Bluntly: Aside from slightly cheaper holidays, I'm not seeing the advantages for Scandanavia. I'm also confused as to why you think that you would need some political union to benefit from their examples? Not so much for France, but a lot of Eastern Euro countries have huge problems with corruption and I'd love to see evidence that political union with, e.g. Sweden, will help, e.g. Bulgaria, aside from enabling mass-migration.

Not all action should be seen as a political advantage for one self. Particularly not if you are a rich country, like all Scandinavian countries are. And Nordic countries for that matter as well.

I feel it is about trying to help Eastern Europe obtaining the same standard of living as Western Europe. After the Wall fell, Scandinavia worked together to help the three Baltic country up. Work that has paid off well in Estonia. Latvia and Lithuania still needs some work.

True, this was done without the help of the EU, but one of the main purposes of the EU is solidarity. Ensuring that all of Europe has a decent standard of living.

Not all political action should be seen as advantageous for oneself...but it should almost certainly be advantageous for oneself. I think that any politician that proposes sacrificing their own team's quality of life for the benefit of others won't last very long.

Touché. I believe European politicians have talked about how the prosperity of other European countries will benefit us all in the end. The EU has provided a much easier access for Scandinavia to other European countries' markets, allowing us to export more.

But Scandinavians are not above helping others; selfless acts are never that, though, there is always some objective in mind. Like bringing the Baltic countries up? It's just smart to have stable neighbours.

Bad economies leads to unstable countries, and that leads to trouble for its neighbours. And in a world as intertwined as ours, even beyond just neighbours.

Besides, EU-friendly governments in Scandinavia hasn't been outed for their pro-EU stance anyway.

I completely understand that it makes sense to have prosperous, stable neighbours. However, I'm not convinced that the EU as an institution is absolutely necessary to achieve that. Given that it has so many problems with corruption itself, it is not clear to me that it is learning very well from the better examples! It is surely possible to have some inter-cooperation without some of the downsides of the EU - mostly free trade and a certain minimum quality standard of living without the pernicious interference and bloated bureaucracy for which the european institutions are famed. Of course, I have no solid ideas to offer on that direction :-(

Well, to put it into perspective, they joined during very different political and economic times: the Danes in the late 60s and the Swedes and Finns right after the Wall came down.

Edit: Looks like Denmark applied in 1969 and was admitted in the early 1970s.

To be fair, New Zealand is also the top of the world (1st equal), and Australia has a respectable score. I love the idea of a European Union, but I'd prefer a union of Australia and New Zealand. We've got so much in common.

What benefits would a Australia-New Zealand union provide, beyond the very close cooperation that already seems to occur?

If they were one country, NZ'ers wouldn't be so offended (real or faked) that you called them Australians. :-D

Rugby World Cup domination.

We already have free trade and a joint labour market. This benefits both countries hugely. Any other union would have very questionable benefits (currency, federal government). We should try to extend our free trade zone and labour market. Shortage of cheap labour in New Zealand.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com