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Comment by leothekim | Hacker News Reader

Dave Brubeck took a stand against racism and would refuse to play in segregated venues. He turned down offers to perform in South Africa because of ordinances that prohibited racially mixed groups. He apparently started one the first racially integrated bands in the U.S. army during WW II.

We lost a musical genius and a good human being.

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I like an anecdote of his [1] about trying to perform in the South: ended up having to cancel 23 of the 25 performances, but did manage to push two through, which in his view only ran up against official opposition enforcing the rules they thought they were supposed to enforce, not opposition from anyone who actually attended the performance on purpose.

Occasionally interesting to think that I'm the first generation where it was normal for a jazz band to have both white and black musicians. Very recent that the racists were beaten back.

[1] http://cordjefferson.tumblr.com/post/37269121387/all-these-r...

Brubeck's career benefitted MASSIVELY from being white (ish: he was of mixed ancestry), a fact he was himself quite ashamed of.

As of this writing, kylebgorman's post is grayed out.

That shows a substantial number of votes have expressed disapproval of the post.

Does his insinuation really deserve the treatment?

Couldn't the disapproving parties have elaborated on their castigation?

If the disagreement is about the facts, then why not state so and corroborate with those facts?

Cavalier down-voting is the cheapest form of expression and belongs on lesser forums. Not on HN. Use it sparingly.

Present your case, instead.

I didn't downvote him, but even if Brubeck's career was benefited "MASSIVELY from being white", this has absolutely nothing to do with whether he was a good human being or took a stand against racism.

Sometimes being a privileged position allows one to do tremendous things. As Brubeck did countless times.

You missed the last part of his point, which was that Brubeck was ashamed of that fact, implying that he wished for a world with more racial equality, and thus bolstering the case that he was a good human being.

Ah, I had interpreted that to mean that he was ashamed of his ancestry.

Sadly you're right. The world was a bad place back then, extraordinarily decent people living in an indecent society. I like to think Brubeck amongst others contributed to the demise of segregation and the basis of our modern integrated society. He was an exceptional jazz musician and an all round great guy who was very grateful for what he had. There's no such thing these days as a real musician, Dave was part of a dying breed of people who got into music because they love what they do, not because they want to be famous or rich like modern day musicians.

I disagree completely. I wouldn't have had a clue who Dave Brubeck was, if it wasn't for my son, who is a musician in the classical sense through and through. He has no illusions that his Jazz horn is going to make him rich. He does it because he loves it, and I know he's not alone.

My comment was taken out of context. My point was most musicians who get to the top of the charts these days take what they have for granted, it's all a show and they aren't real musicians. Of course there will always be people like your son who do what they do because they love music, not because they have hopes of being famous. Don't be confused, I wasn't refering to everyone who plays an instrument, just those considered to have "made it".

What makes you think that this is a modern issue, or has worsened over time?

What are two advances that have revolutionised music? The Internet and computing. Computing is responsible for causing what I believe to be a very modern issue. Anyone with a Macbook and copy of Protools or Garage Band is a producer these days. Heck, you can record and compose music on your phone nowadays, create a Myspace, Last.fm or Soundcloud account and get your music out to thousands of people.

Once upon a time to get somewhere you had to tour, you had to get the attention of someone at a label to recognise you who was willing to take you on. Hard work used to be the basis of popular music, then it all started going downhill in the 80's with the likes of MTV slowly corrupting modern music.

An excellent case in point is an Australian band called Capture The Crown. They have never released an EP, never toured Australia, all they did was come out of nowhere with an attention grabbing music clip and well-produced song with swearing and generic breakdowns, they released a couple of more singles and now they're signed to Sumerian Records and about to release their debut album all without ever touring their own country and to this day, still haven't. They got on a plane and toured the US instead of touring their own country first unlike other well-known Australian bands like Parkway Drive or Hands Like Houses.

Wide distribution has become much more accessible and much less expensive, which makes it easier for exceptional musicians (or performers) to get attention and gain traction. The key word here is "exceptional". Some guy messing with Protools or Garage Band isn't going to get far if he just isn't very good. So yes, you can get your music to hundreds of thousands of people, but you probably won't keep their attention for very long. Unless you're exceptionally good.

> There's no such thing these days as a real musician, Dave was part of a dying breed of people who got into music because they love what they do, not because they want to be famous or rich like modern day musicians.

I think that says more about you than the state of modern musicians. There will always be 'real musicians', motivated by their love of the art. Whether or not we can find them depends on how willing we are to dig past the shallow acts that top the charts.

Please see my other response. My comment was meant to be interpreted as most musicians who have "made it" these days aren't real musicians, it's all appearance and showmanship not musicianmanship. While there are some great musicians who are considered as having made it, there aren't many and in a world where people still think Slash is the worlds greatest guitarist it's obvious famous musicians who appreciate their art, the fans and what they have are a dying breed.

There will always be real musicians around, but I purely meant those who have made it not those who do the 9-5 hustle and bustle in the Subway's playing for change or smaller venues for $50 and a bar tab.

Benny Goodman was the first Bandleader that integrated his orchestra and small groups in the 1930s. Goodman's quartet feathered Teddy Wilson and Lionel Hampton.

I'm not saying Brubeck didn't do it, but he certainly wasn't the first.

Sorry, my wording was ambiguous. I meant to say that he founded one of the first racially integrated bands in the US armed forces.

http://www.pbs.org/brubeck/theMan/cowboyToJazzman.htm

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