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Comment by basisword | Hacker News Reader

I don't think you have any conception of how little money most people have. Why would I spend £15-20k I don't have on a heat pump so I can get 'free' air con when my house is already heated via another method? Most people don't have £500 spare for a portable air con unit.

On top of that, until a few months ago, government subsidies for heat pumps didn't apply to the versions that include air con so anyone who did get a heat pump didn't get that version.

>> why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home

We don't. There have been various schemes over the last couple of decades where people could have this done for free or at very low cost.

>> You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online.

I suggest you do the same.

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Something needs to be done with the heat. The common euro talking point: aircon doesn’t solve the problem, let’s insulate instead (an order of magnitude more expensive). Apparently you entertain an even more absurd idea: let’s just do nothing, because everyone is too poor. That’s just wrong, plenty of home owners or real estate owners have the means to foot the bills, especially if regulation mandates or subsidises heat pumps.

Besides that, just know you’re participating in a system of belief that needlessly kills thousands each year (and many more to come, if you believe as I hope that climate change is real). Just dwell on it a little. Thousands dead because of ideological comfort and resistance to change, which in and of itself is a weird form of climate skepticism.

If you answer this, please address each of my points from both comments. You have adressed none so far.

Let me introduce you to… cold related deaths. They are 8x more common in europe than heat deaths.

Since both of the cases happen mostly indoors we can assume it's both thanks to state of the buildings.

Not everyone can afford AC or insulation and cold used to be and still a bigger problem. Heating is absurdly expensive with leaky building so people prioritize insulating.

“Ideological comfort” lol stop it what the hell. Do you think people in europe wouldn't like to have AC if they could reasonably have it?

« Heating is absurdly expensive with leaky building so people prioritize insulating. »

Nope, heat pumps are cheaper and more efficient. Insulating did not even make a dent in reducing emissions in Germany after years of trying.

Whataboutism about cold related deaths doesn’t change anything about the heat related deaths. Did you know the Philippines lose fewer people to heat than Europe, per capita? They have AC.

Again, you’ve been misinformed. Please research the subject, use an LLM, whatever you need. The information is right there.

I don't think you realize how old buildings work and that majority of people in europe live in apartment buildings often 50+ old and they rent it.

Would love to see you convince the landlords to refurbish the building to use expensive heatpumps when gas is already in place. Also heatpumps just like any other heating solution sucks without insulation.

It would be better to look at new buildings and you will find out that yes even europeans when building new get AC/heatpumps and solar and all the good stuff.

The thing is - I as european don't know a single person who has or is building a new house. I know few that live in a house but most prefer appartments.

> Would love to see you convince the landlords to refurbish the building to use expensive heatpumps when gas is already in place.

They've been redoing the insulation since new regulation was enforced in France and Germany, it's been years now. So, that kind of thing is doable, except billions have been spent for a dubious result (look it up, Germans heat just as much as before). I am appalled at the complete lack of information on these subjects. For shame.

EDIT: Fact checking myself, the Germans have been reducing their heating, but significantly lower than expected because of a rebound effect (part of the efficiency gain is converted into comfort).

Hold on - 15k GBP?

An ordinary heatpump for an ordinary house should cost something like 3000 NZD including labor for installation. What are we doing differently?

Usually it's installers taking the piss on quotes because it's not a standard thing and they don't want to deal with it or think they can get away with it. The US has a similar issue in some places for heat pumps (but not AC, despite being the same damn thing).

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