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Comment by tartoran | Hacker News Reader

You risk being silenly flagged and get nerfed responses. Somehting like shadow dumbed down.

That is an inherent and unavoidable risk regardless, as things stand if you want access to frontier models you are at the mercy of their providers.

That’s quite a claim. What’s your source for this?

Fable's model card provides the following as a relevant reference

https://xcancel.com/ClaudeDevs/status/2064949876463645026

That’s totally unrelated. The post I was replying to claimed that if you create a new account with OpenAI and that gets detected, your whole account gets silently “nerfed”.

That is not in any way related to Fable (visibly) being switched to a less strong model if you’re trying to discuss certain topics.

> That is not in any way related to Fable (visibly) being switched to a less strong model if you’re trying to discuss certain topics.

We're talking about it being invisibly moved to a weaker model if it looks like you're distilling (which is best detected through something that is at least partially a reputational / account metric).

Now, Anthropic stepped away from this, but it highlights one more kind of systemic risk you're exposed to when you're not running the model yourself.

It demonstrates that:

1. Anthropic certainly has the ability.

2. They’re willing to use it silently.

And this thread is about OpenAI.

> That’s totally unrelated.

i disagree, but it seems clear, from how you put it, that there's no point explaining the why

They already reversed course on that decision a couple of days later. Trivial to find a source, but Fable is also rather notably not available to the public right now, so it's not actually a relevant threat.

excuse me but, is this trivial source you're referring to the url included in the post you're responding to, or did they reverse back to the original intent of keeping refusals quiet?

So ... like reddit! :)

Thankfully I don't depend on any of such services. It would make me rather angry.

HN also has shadowbans. If your preferences have showdead=yes, you might see some.

That's a decent moderation, shadowban is a totally different thing. AFAIK, your karma is enough to vouch that Flagged topics or comments and return that piece into a regular displaying.

There's no difference between shadowban and moderation, shadowban is a moderation tool.

Shadowban and community-driven moderation are different poles. Former is a tool of shallow narcisses, latter is the best moderation strategy possible in the clearnet. Come on, commenter.

Reddit is the only platform that actually tells you that you are shadowbanned, so at least they are upfront about it, but their appeal system sucks. My friend just appealed every day for just over 600 days and finally got their account un-shadowbanned.

Isn’t that definitionally impossible? If they tell you about it then it’s not a shadow ban.

I guess it depends on the definition of shadow ban.

In Reddit's case it means you can continue to post and comment, it's just that your posts and comments are no longer seen by others.

Reddit doesn't tell you about that.

Reddit doesn't tell you you're shadowbanned. You are thinking of regular banned.

No, they have fully banned and shadowbanned. If you are shadowbanned you can login and check the appeals page but your posts and comments will no longer be visible. If you are fully banned you cannot log in.

That is called "muted". It is not a shadowban, by definition.

It doesn't say that your posts and comments are invisible - they just are.

No they don't and if they do tell you that means you have been banned.

"It only took two years for my friend to appeal a Ban"

If you're willing to wait a couple years, I dare say a few services might have changed their minds by then, so it's too early to judge.

Most of them don't even have a reasonable appeals process at all :(

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